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Ex Ante

I was playing poker with some folks last night, and one thing that definitely dawns on you is that there are no expected value theorists in a gambling den. Watching a whole big stack of chips vanish after a series of bets that were perfectly appropriate given one's ex ante knowledge, the fact that if the same scenario were to play itself out ten more times you'd likely turn out way ahead provides small comfort. When you've lost, you've lost. So that's prologue.

Brad Delong makes a point that many have made in response to my post on the American Revolution. I may be right about some of what I said, but the Revolution certainly seemed like a good idea at the time:

I, however, firmly endorse and support the American Revolution, in the sense that it looked like the right thing to do at the time. Remember that the political evolution of Britain toward democracy was not foreordained as of 1775. (Indeed, the pressure exerted by the example of the United States was a powerful democratizing force in Britain throughout the whole of the nineteenth century.) Britain in 1775 was a corrupt monarchical oligarchy--albeit one with much softer rule, a much more effective state, and a much broader and more open system of political competition within the oligarchy than has been standard in human empires. It is quite likely that--absent the American Revolution and the Great Democratic Example across the seas, and absent the long reign of Victoria--the political evolution of nineteenth-century Britain would have stuck where it was at the accession of George III, or even moved backward away from democracy to some degree.

It is one thing to be a Dominion in close alliance with and owing some degree of allegiance to a rapidly-democratizing Britain. It is another thing to be a colony of a superpower ruled by a corrupt coterie of landlords.

That's almost certainly right. I wouldn't want to be understood as saying that the Founders should have known better than to rebel. There's no way they could have seen the sort of geopolitical conflicts between the English-speaking world and various Teutonic and Slavic (and now, perhaps, Arab) tyrannies, nor is it by any means clear that Britain and her dominions would have developed such benign governance structures absent the Revolution to cause them to rethink a thing or two. I just want to consider what sort of emotional response we should have to the fact of the Revolution.

Some colonial situations are inherently unworkable. Nothing France did short of genocide could have made Algeria into an integral part of the Republic. British policies in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, however, demonstrate that there were approaches that the United Kingdom could have taken to the thirteen colonies that would have led to a workable form of political association. Indeed, even without any formal structure, after World War II the British settler states share a set of fairly close ties. The Wealth of Nations was published in 1776 and argued, quite correctly, that the set of policies Britain was attempting to impose on the Thirteen Colonies were not really in Britain's interests, revolution or otherwise. I infer from this that the realization that an enlightened policy of benign neglect combined with an effort to come up with some kind of coordination and burden-sharing on defense matters would have was not conceptually impossible in the eighteenth century. That the King and his ministers failed to work this out is something to be regretted. That, in response to this failure, the Colonies revolted was quite appropriate. Still, it would have been a better world had wiser leadership prevailed and the breach not occurred.

In this context, it's worth noting that despite two hundred years of living under the current political order, the social and cultural realities of North America still don't map onto the divide into Canada and the United States very well. Québec is culturally distinct from Anglo-Canada in a way that Anglo-Canada is not from the United States. This is especially true if you consider the non-Southern portions of the United States. The gap between British Columbia and the American Pacific Coast is much smaller than the gap between either and Dixie or Québec. One could say the same thing about Ontario and the Great Lakes portion of America, Atlantic Canada and New England, and possibly about the Canadian plains and the bit of the USA that lies to their South. A three-way division between the Confederacy, Québec, and The Rest would make more sense than dividing The Rest in two and grafting one alien element onto each.

July 7, 2004 | Permalink

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» Colonial relations from coffee grounds
Matthew Yglesias writes: British policies in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, however, demonstrate that there were approaches that the United Kingdom could have taken to the thirteen colonies that would have led to a workable form of political assoc... [Read More]

Tracked on Jul 7, 2004 2:51:19 PM

» Uh... from Zwichenzug
Ouch. So what happened in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand was short of genocide. I'll be sure to let the natives know. I know this is just a blind spot, and I don't think it means that Yglesias is some terrible racist or anything like that. Bu... [Read More]

Tracked on Jul 7, 2004 7:07:18 PM

Comments

yeah, but what about Pennsyltuckey?

Posted by: asdf | Jul 7, 2004 1:22:43 PM

Couple quick points:

1) Might there not be a correlation between the Colonies' revolting and subsequent improvement (and lack of rebellion) in the rest of England's colonies? i.e., learned from previous public policy failures?

2) Tongue in cheek: It depends on where you are in Canada. From experiences with a Canadian roommate from Toronto and a Canadian boyfriend from Alberta, I can see Toronto and the surrounding area fitting in well with the liberal intelligentsia in the U.S., but clashing with the heartland. (but one could say the same of NYC, too) Alberta seems to be a more frozen Texas, both in politics and pride, and perhaps wouldn't mind terribly much if 'down East' merged with the U.S.

If we're drawing hypothetical lines, keep the Plains states and provinces together and the coasts (vaguely drawn so as to include Ontario) together. Put Alberta and Texas together for a non-contiguous oil bloc.

The Quebecois, of course, are their own thing and wouldn't be included in any such hypothetical merger, unless it was to vote for a referendum to leave. ;)

Posted by: Cala | Jul 7, 2004 1:37:04 PM

Ain't no such thing as "position" in the garage, Matt. If there are 6 other people in the pot, you might as well see if your 27o turns out okay. Might flop 772.

Posted by: Jaybird | Jul 7, 2004 1:40:03 PM

Is this really about Iraq? Subtle Matt, I bet this is really about Iraq.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 7, 2004 1:44:59 PM

Should've fucking come out for that shit. I'd of staged a revolution right there.

Posted by: PQ KC | Jul 7, 2004 2:02:55 PM

"Still, it would have been a better world had wiser leadership prevailed and the breach not occurred."

You can't possibly say this with an single ounce of authority. For all you, or anyone else for that matter, know, things could have turned out far worse.

Posted by: Ugh | Jul 7, 2004 2:09:29 PM

Once again, showing Matt is just too young and smart for his own good. Nobody but God can know what the heck would have happened without the American Revolution. The chains of causation are just too complex, although we would welcome a good well-thought-out "alternate-history" novel from Matt. You'll have to do a lot of homework.

How about the Hudson Bay Company owning two-thirds of North America? Latin American revolutions suppressed? Louisiana Territory sold to Spain? Russian colonies in the Pacific Northwest?

Picture Michael Caine in a pith helmet and red coat transplanted from Rorke's Drift to Little Big Horn...

If we look at "deterministic" history, a la "Guns, Germs, and Steel", then the English colonists triumph anyhow, because they're more numerous, inventive, technologically and politically advanced, and carry more diseases. They will continue importing criminals from England, and will continue being brutal and expansionist. The South will rebel whenever slavery is outlawed, and the North and frontier colonies will likely find other causes for a clash. Perpetuating the legitimacy of the corrupt British regime will defer necessary changes down the road, leading to a greater crisis in the first half of the 19th Century.

Posted by: Al Peck | Jul 7, 2004 2:20:30 PM

I think that this has already been covered in "A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!" by Harry Harrison.

Posted by: Constantine | Jul 7, 2004 2:57:29 PM

In Shaws' The Apple Cart, he has America deciding that it wants to reunite with the 'Mother Country'.

We forget little bits of history, like the years that Franklin spent in England, lobbying for America, and the successes and failures that greeted him during his stay.
What if his mission had been successful? Would Napoleon have started colonizing the Louisiana Territory in order to keep it from falling into English hands?

The pro-Tory types usually emigrated to Canada, and I'm sure that the mostly peaceful history afterwards has something to do with the lessons learned from the Revolutionary War.

Posted by: The Dark Avenger | Jul 7, 2004 3:52:43 PM

> I think that this has already been covered
> in "A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!" by
> Harry Harrison.

GREAT novel. Sadly not well known today.

Cranky

Posted by: Cranky Observer | Jul 7, 2004 4:06:42 PM

There is a school of thought over here in the UK that the American Revolution was a continuation of the English Civil War which the Puritan "Parliamentarians" won, permenantly this time. Freedland's "Bringing the Revolution Back Home" uses that thesis to argue for constitutional reform in the UK. In actuality, the limited nature of the sufferage in both the House of Commons and the House of Representatives and the undemocratic nature of the Lords and the early Senate leads me to think that the early US was only ever so slightly more democratic than contemporaneous Britain in any event.

Oh, and this is nitpicking I know, but the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" technically didn't come into being until the British Parliament forced the (strictly nominally independent of course) Irish Parliament to merge with it in 1805 in response to the threat of Napoleonic invasion via Ireland. From the Union of the Parliaments of England and Scotland in 1705 until that date the Kingdom was known as simply "Great Britain" - the term "United Kingdom" was unknown in 1776.

Posted by: Martin | Jul 7, 2004 4:11:26 PM

Well, Bob Rubin would say you should be happy if your decision was ex ante rational and correct no matter how it came out. And you should be sad if your decision was ex ante stupid even if you were lucky. The right emotional reaction is to be proud of people who did their best and struggled hard given what they could have known and foreseen at the time...

Posted by: Brad DeLong | Jul 7, 2004 4:16:06 PM

And so Matt has, apparently unwittingly, highlited another act of genius by the crew that wrote the Constitution- a regular process by which territories were admitted as states, on an equal footing of enfranchisement with the already existing states.

The British had plenty of opportunity to try this out, if they had wanted to. Instead, they used every ploy and strategm to keep their colonies unequal. And, as far as the British were concerned, the more unequal the better- Newfoundland remained as a virtual satrapy long after other provinces of Canada had confederated.

'Independence' came to the British colonies only when the British had decided that the costs of government outweighed the benefits to themselves. And even that was a paltry 'independence' indeed, as the Australians discovered when their Labor government was suspended and replaced by a governor from England in the mid-70s.

In contrast, all of our 50 states joined or were admitted to the Union on terms of equality of franchise with the other states, and Americans move as freely from state to state as though there were no difference between them in voting rights or, in practical terms, in any other matter.

In contrast, the English government has been so unpersuasive that even today the Scottish, Welsh, and even the Cornish still yearn for what they view as the fruits of independence, skeptical as they are of the benefits of being 'English'.

Posted by: serial catowner | Jul 7, 2004 4:55:51 PM

I enjoy reading this blog, but I the "reconsidering the Revolution" jag, along with the "let's gut the environment" posts lead me to believe that Matt needs to take a month off. Signal to noise, and all that.

Posted by: jlw | Jul 7, 2004 5:29:06 PM

"In contrast, the English government has been so unpersuasive that even today the Scottish, Welsh, and even the Cornish still yearn for what they view as the fruits of independence, skeptical as they are of the benefits of being 'English'."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3803031.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3799417.stm

Given the Scottish National Party didn't exactly set the world on fire in the recent elections (getting exactly as many Euro seats as the Tories), Plaid Cymru can't seem to make up whether or not it wants independence (and could barely get the Welsh to vote for devolution) and I am unaware of any elected representative of any Cornish Independence movement I think, serial catowner, that statement is a little overstated.

Also John Kerr, the Govenor-General who dismissed the Gough Whitlan Government, was Australian and nominated by the Oz Parliament. The UK Parliament has had no say in Australian affairs since 1931

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerr

http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/StatuteofWestminster.html


Posted by: Martin | Jul 7, 2004 5:33:14 PM

"In contrast, the English government has been so unpersuasive that even today the Scottish, Welsh, and even the Cornish still yearn for what they view as the fruits of independence, skeptical as they are of the benefits of being 'English'."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3803031.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3799417.stm

Given the Scottish National Party didn't exactly set the world on fire in the recent elections (getting exactly as many Euro seats as the Tories), Plaid Cymru can't seem to make up whether or not it wants independence (and could barely get the Welsh to vote for devolution) and I am unaware of any elected representative of any Cornish Independence movement I think, serial catowner, that statement is a little overstated.

Also John Kerr, the Govenor-General who dismissed the Gough Whitlan Government, was Australian and nominated by the Oz Parliament. The UK Parliament has had no say in Australian affairs since 1931

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerr

http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/StatuteofWestminster.html


Posted by: Martin | Jul 7, 2004 5:33:25 PM

Catowner - "In contrast, the English government has been so unpersuasive that even today the Scottish, Welsh, and even the Cornish still yearn for what they view as the fruits of independence, skeptical as they are of the benefits of being 'English'."

By "yearn for", I think you mean "all oppose by large majorities". Oh, and the Scots and the Welsh have never been (even formally) English.

Anyway, hope you all had a good Treachery Day.

Posted by: john b | Jul 7, 2004 5:44:14 PM

Another example of Perfidious Albion trying to minimize the lawful aspirations of her oppressed minorities. If they were Americans they wouldn't have these problems.....

Posted by: serial catowner | Jul 7, 2004 5:56:39 PM

Eh???

Posted by: Martin | Jul 7, 2004 5:59:02 PM

I am telling y'all, this is about Iraq. Maybe. Unlike us lazy, commenters, Matthew may actually be trying to find an occupation and transition that actually works.

The "let's pull out, let them kill each other" idea of the left, or the "we're gonna stay, let them kill other" plan of the administration may not be the only options. Kerry, if elected, is desperately gonna have to come up with something.
Be nice if "let them kill each other" wasn't part of his plan.

Not many radical changes of governance went as well as ours, and it might be worth looking at it for ideas. Can anybody think of others?

Oh, and bringing in 100k French dudes is not on the table.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 7, 2004 6:09:15 PM

my canadian history is hazy but (1) in Cala's post seems about right -- and the official policy was divestiture because Canada was a losing venture (economically and strategically) anyway

there were actually rebellions in upper and lower canada in 1837-1839, although pretty lame in comparison. the response was basically to capitulate for reasons including the above.

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/u/up/upper_canada_rebellion.html

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/p/pa/patriotes_rebellion.html

the american style radical backwards agrarianism fashionable at the time had a lot of influence on the rebellions

but the "family compact" with strong british ties was far from a dictatorship, evidenced by the hard time strachan, the most powerful of the bunch, had passing legislation in the "weak" legislative assembly in upper canada

http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~dhuang/931102.html

Posted by: Shai | Jul 7, 2004 6:29:27 PM

I have no intention of being for or agin the Scottich Nationalists or Welsh independence. F'r heaven's sakes, Henry VII was Welsh and he became king, so enough with the discrimination claims already. I merely offered that as an example that the American way of admitting states tended to a more perfect union. The proof, as always, is left to the reader......

Posted by: serial catowner | Jul 7, 2004 6:32:44 PM

I don't have a problem with the sentiment behind your post, just with the factual innacuracies. No discrimination claims from this quarter....

Posted by: Martin | Jul 7, 2004 6:47:04 PM

it's possible that matt is just a lousy card player.

Posted by: Olaf glad and big | Jul 8, 2004 12:51:36 AM

I have a friend who plays online poker -- like five "tables" at a time or something -- and keeps these hugely complicated spreadsheets to track his performance. Apparently it is quite volatile, but in the long-ish run he makes a reliable $15 or so an hour. For him the expected value of a poker hand is greater than the initial wager. And like Bob Rubin, he is happy.

Now, the potential ups and downs of poker are well-understood.

But has anybody ever woven any plausible-seeming scenarios of an American Revolution gone horribly, horribly wrong?

Matt's questioned the upside (maybe we coulda been fine without a war!), but what about potential costs that Revolution could (or should?) have incurred but that we avoided thanks to luck alone?

Is the expected value of a single hand of 'American Revolution' greater or less than the starting wager of thirteen colonies doin' their thang?

I know there's no way to answer this. But I feel that there is room for a better understanding of the upside and downside. (It should probably be a broader question about revolutions in general, not just 1776.)

Surely there must be a scholar of revolutionary studies somewhere in the world who has published a treatise on precisely this subject!

If not, I'll bet I could get my poker-playing friend to graph it in Excel.

Posted by: Robin | Jul 8, 2004 2:23:56 AM

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