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On Kansas And Populism
Writing on the LA Times op-ed page, Tom Frank gives us a précis of his new book, What's The Matter With Kansas. The general theme is that the working class no longer stands with the Democratic Party in part because it's so enthralled by cultural conservatism, but also because the Democratic Party no longer really stands for working class economics.
This is the sort of thing one hears often enough from people who on the merits favor a more populist approach to economic policy, and also to some extent from conservatives who delight in the idea that the GOP is now the real party of the people. It's always worth pointing out that the conservatism of the working class is often exaggerated. If you look at the 2000 exit polls or any general election poll today you'll see that people with low incomes support the Democrats more than do people with middling incomes who, in turn, are more supportive than people with high incomes. What the "working class conservatives" analysis misses out is that outside of Kansas a really large proportion of poor people are black or Hispanic, and those people certainly feel that the Democrats stand for working class interests and they, in turn, support the Democrats. Another large class of poor people consists of single working white women who, again, support the Democrats.
The upshot is that Democrats don't have a "working class problem" it's a white working class problem and, to a large extent, a problem with white, working class men.
That ought to make us at least prima facie suspicious that the problem is really that the Democrats don't support an economic program that's in the interests of the working class. Non-white working class people think they do, and many working class white women think they do, and it would be odd if the Democrats had somehow come up with economic policies that work for working class blacks and working class Latinos and single working class white women, but not for working class white men or married working class white women. It's hard to imagine what policies like that would be.
So it's worth considering the possibility that cultural conservatism really is about culture rather than some deficiency in the economic agenda. The question, then, is what it would take to change the equasion around. Frank's op-ed is ambiguous between two possibilities -- one is that roughly the same economic agenda could appeal to Kansas if the Democrats were willing to drop cultural liberalism. Another is that Kandas would swallow cultural liberalism if it were yoked to a more robustly populist economic agenda. Now I met Tom Frank once, and I'm pretty sure he'd be a lot happier with the latter scenario than with the former one, but maybe he would prefer the former scenario to the status quo. I can't really say a great deal about that, nor do I have a huge amount of personal concern about this because I think that most of the proposals to make the Dems more populist on economics are wrong on the merits, but it's still worth thinking about a bit.
I can say that a few weeks ago I was talking to a Democratic pollster who said she'd just be trying to assess the viability of the "win-win" scenario where the Democrats go far enough left on economics to stay left on culture and still to better among rural whites. She said she really wanted it to be the case that this strategy would work, but near as she can tell from her research, it won't. What boosted Democratic fortunes among rural whites was simply moving right on culture. I haven't seen the underlying research, but that's what she said, and I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand.
It also should be said that those white Democrats who perform successfully in, say, the South, don't seem to do it by moving left on economics. Instead, they do it by moving right a bit on both the cultural and the economic issues. Frank spends some time in the op-ed dissing the DLC as being responsible for the party's poor fate in Kansas, but it's worth pointing out that almost all of the DLC's founders (including Bill Clinton, the implicit bête noir of the piece) and most of its current leaders are, in fact, from the South. Now maybe these guys all just have it terribly wrong, or maybe the politics of the South are radically different from the politics of the plains (certainly they have been quite different at certain points in time, though it seems to me that they've been similar in the postwar era) so this analysis doesn't hold. But I wouldn't be so sure.
If you think leftwing economics are right on the merits, then good for you, and good luck trying to convince me (over the past couple of years I've been convinced that I should move left on some of these topics, and might be pursuaded to move furhter left) and others that you're right. But I think it's dangerous and, frankly, wrong to believe that there's electoral gold hidden in that agenda that Democrats have unaccountably failed to mine.
July 18, 2004 | Permalink
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» BACK TO KANSAS from MaxSpeak, You Listen!
Some further thoughts on this issue. In re: the question of why workers side with cultural conservatives and renounce their economic, class interests. Jack O'Toole via Kevin makes an important point: Democrats tend to gloss over regressive distribution... [Read More]
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» BACK TO KANSAS from MaxSpeak, You Listen!
Some further thoughts on this issue. In re: the question of why workers side with cultural conservatives and renounce their economic, class interests. Jack O'Toole via Kevin makes an important point: Democrats tend to gloss over regressive distribution... [Read More]
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» BACK TO KANSAS from MaxSpeak, You Listen!
Some further thoughts on this issue. In re: on workers siding with cultural conservatives and renouncing their economic, class interests. Jack O'Toole via Kevin makes an important point: Democrats tend to gloss over regressive distributional effects of... [Read More]
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» BACK TO KANSAS from MaxSpeak, You Listen!
Some further thoughts on this issue. In re: on workers siding with cultural conservatives and renouncing their economic, class interests. Jack O'Toole via Kevin makes an important point: Democrats tend to gloss over regressive distributional effects of... [Read More]
Tracked on Jul 20, 2004 12:41:12 PM
» Kansas, class, sex and race from coffee grounds
I haven't read Thomas Frank's What's the Matter with Kansas, but that won't stop me commenting on the comments ... Matthew Yglesias writes: It's always worth pointing out that the conservatism of the working class is often exaggerated. If you... [Read More]
Tracked on Jul 21, 2004 3:00:17 PM
Comments
Well, ok, appears you may know more about this than I do, so I will take this quite seriously.
But I think it is a fact that the bottom two quintiles have lost real economic ground relative to those above them in the last thirty years, and the Democratic party has lost ground to Republicans, at least in Congress, and I need to be convinced this is coincidence. Or due perhaps to the fact that the Democratic party has moved culturally to the left in the last thirty years, but this could be due to losing those "Reagan Republicans" who would pull the party rightwards.
And white rural males, IIRC, are the demographic that has lost the most ground economically in the last few decades.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 18, 2004 11:51:07 PM
Mr. Yglesias--
This is the first time I've responded to any blog that I've been reading. Hope I'm doing this respectfully.
"It also should be said that those white Democrats who perform successfully in, say, the South, don't seem to do it by moving left on economics. Instead, they do it by moving right a bit on both the cultural and the economic issues. Frank spends some time in the op-ed dissing the DLC as being responsible for the party's poor fate in Kansas, but it's worth pointing out that almost all of the DLC's founders (including Bill Clinton, the implicit bête noir of the piece) and most of its current leaders are, in fact, from the South. Now maybe these guys all just have it terribly wrong, or maybe the politics of the South are radically different from the politics of the plains (certainly they have been quite different at certain points in time, though it seems to me that they've been similar in the postwar era) so this analysis doesn't hold. But I wouldn't be so sure."
I just finished Frank's book, and I read his other book "One Market Under God." Frank's larger point is that the conservatives (with DLC cooperation) have been successful in detaching economics from culture, as if culture happened in a vacuum. By directing working-class anger toward abortion, gay marriage, stem-cell research, all the while getting them to also support removing estate taxes, outsourcing, destroying public education and making college tuition unreachable for working-class folks, the Right has basically gotten these people to vote against their best interests while gloriously "singing us into the apocalypse."
Frank's point about Bill Clinton was that his triangulation strategy was brilliant short-term but disastrous long-term, at least in terms of keeping working-class voters tied to the Dems. They took economic issues off the table, which is what the conservatives wanted all along. Without that to keep the focus on economic equality, it was only a matter of time before the conservatives would respond by focusing on the wedge issues which prey upon our political system today.
I don't know if it's worth a lot to go after Kansas. The state is basically disappearing as are the other plains states, with maybe the exception of Nebraska and the towns that line the Mississippi. (I guess Fargo, NoDak is becoming quite the Hip Place.) Kansas is not the South, so the point about the DLC being mostly Southern is rather irrelevant. Frank makes that fairly clear in a chapter that lays out Kansas' rather odd history.
While I do suspect there are some racial politics going on in the Plains states--my folks live in a town in North Dakota which is being destroyed by Wal-Mart and K-Mart, and they used to live in Denver which they felt was "being ruined by the minorities"--their concerns are very different from the South. It would be interesting to see the poll results from the last Senatorial elections and see how Brownback did amongst Kansas' African-American community. He has had some successes there, evidently--according to Frank.
All that being said, you do raise an interesting point at the end of your response to Frank's piece which I myself wondered about. I think Frank does leave a little too open on the side of the Dems going right culturally speaking. To go the way of Holy Joe or Zell Miller would be a disaster, and I don't think Frank is advocating that, but he doesn't foreclose it either.
Posted by: Richard Morell | Jul 18, 2004 11:53:44 PM
Oh, and that your groups perceive that the Democratic party supports their interests might merely mean that the Republicans are perceived as incredibly worse. It does not necessarily follow that the perception is the policy reality.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 18, 2004 11:54:38 PM
It also should be said that those white Democrats who perform successfully in, say, the South, don't seem to do it by moving left on economics. Instead, they do it by moving right a bit on both the cultural and the economic issues.
It can be argued that this is because the whole political narrative has been skewed by Dems championing cultural liberalism, and the resulting backlash amongst rural and exurban whites.
What is the subtext of all right wing railing against "big gummint". Is it that an excessive public sector crowds out more productive capital expenditures while skeweing incentives through an overly generous welfare state? Of course not!
It's that the gummint is run by snooty liberals who think they know better than you , want to take away your guns and want to make your kids gay marry.
Hence the talk aout independence, and the people know how best to spend their money.
If you're southern Democrat who's moved to the right on cultural issues, you still must decry big gummint so long as it's run by Harvard pencil kneck from New York and Taxachussettes.
However, if you were to start a culturally reactionary party which went on to great political success, then it could be argued that folks with middle American "values" were back in charge and it's okay to spend huge gobs of cash out of Washington again.
Posted by: WillieStyle | Jul 18, 2004 11:55:05 PM
I do think MY could stand a move to left on some economic issues, but I agree that this isn't exactly what's at issue.
I agree that the D's problem is with white working-class men, but non-white working-class men's continuing support of the D's has less to do with allegiance to New Dem economics than with these groups distrust or dislike of the GOP alternative. Frank argues in his book that conservativism is really about culture, but only because when D's abandoned working-class interests (eg NAFTA), cultural issues became the wedge issues the GOP could use against liberals.
I wouldn't expect the win-win scenario to show up in the polls primary because of the durability of cultural conservativism as a movement. I think Frank's arguing that in the long-term, the D's abandon the working class at their own peril. On the other hand, Edwards might been seen as the embodiment of this win-win.
I would suggest that plains politics and southern politics are quite different. Politics in KS more resembles IA, MN, & WI in this election cycle than it does most southern states. These are also states where Edwards-style politics are most popular. (Remember the WI primary?)
Anyway, read the book. It's much better than the editorials or the article.
Posted by: mark from kansas | Jul 18, 2004 11:59:10 PM
I think that it's a white problem but not so much a male problem. My guess is that in the areas in question the women are reasonably close to the men in politics. Probably excepting single mothers, divorcees, and single women generally, but a lot of those areas have less singleness. I think.
I think that "moving left" on economic issues is more difficult than moving either left or right on cultural issues, because it doesn't really count unless something concrete is accomplished. If 10 million white men actually got medical insurance for their families, I think that that would change their minds some, whereas proposals and promises wouldn't. A bird in the hand.
Whereas cultural politics can run on fumes.
Posted by: Zizka | Jul 19, 2004 12:24:10 AM
I think race is the pig in the python. The U.S. was following a moderately progressive agenda from 1930 on - and Western Europe was also on the same path - until the Civil Rights legislation of the 1960's. That stopped the liberal agenda. To be sure, there is a limit in left economics, as the retreat by European countries demonstrates, but they moved rightward only a little bit and still have a substantial welfare program. Bottom line: The United States, unlike Europe, had a substantial minority that was held in low regard and which was perceived as getting most of the taxpayers dough.
Racism doesn't disappear with the passage of civil rights legislation. If one looks at other marginal groups (Irish, Italian), it takes about 100 years to fully integrate into society (remember Mario Cuomo's resentment of his treatment?). My guess is that it will take about the same amount of time for African Americans. About four generations. Ending slavery is not the starting point, it is the end of Jim Crow and related social patterns which began in the 1960s.
Posted by: Quiddity | Jul 19, 2004 2:28:49 AM
Something of interest: I occasionally read Free Republic, and one thing that I've noticed is that whenever a thread concerning free trade comes up, virtually every poster is angrily and vehemently *against* free trade. Indeed, I remember one that basically said words to the effect of "Bush is a good man, but the people around him are tricking him into free trade policies."
That seems to me to indicate that either American party could get away with a platform that was much more left wing were it not for the cultural baggage. People like Mark Morford do more to prevent left-wing economic policies from being implemented than the GOP could ever hope to.
Posted by: Andrew Reeves | Jul 19, 2004 2:46:13 AM
Frank argues in his book that conservativism is really about culture, but only because when D's abandoned working-class interests (eg NAFTA), cultural issues became the wedge issues the GOP could use against liberals.
In point of fact, the Republicans began using cultural wedge issues long before the Democrats allegedly abandoned the working class by supporting NAFTA --- from the "law and order" campaigns of Nixon to the "card carrying member of the ACLU" of Bush senior. Dems were losing the white working class males long before Bill Clinton and the DLC came along. Actually, the whole idea was to take white male resentment off the table by reframing the debate as the working man being part of the great middle class who were playing by the rules and getting shfted from all directions. You can criticize Clinton for abandoning the poor, but the burden of the two parent working family was his bread and butter.
Quiddity has it right. The exploitation of "cultural issues" is all tied up with racism and the scapegoating of those who benefitted from the expansion of civil rights. Frank himself wrote a very persuasive piece the other day about how the Right uses the language of victimization to rally its base.
Liberals can try straight up populism, but it's going to be a hard sell if you can't couple it with bigotry and nativism. That's always been the emotional selling point. It may be possible but we've never seen it before.
Posted by: digby | Jul 19, 2004 3:31:24 AM
Damn, Matthew, I get into the group spirit at Drum's and read Mark Schmitt on Frank and I come here and read this for the like 4th or 5th time and this just rocks. Not to be a suck-up, I am trying to answer this and say moving left on economics will actually be effective and you make it tough.
The pragmatism really shines, cuts the bullshit and wishful thinking. It makes a real contrast with Barbara E.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 19, 2004 3:40:05 AM
The problem is that the Democratic Party, unlike the Republicans, really isn't willing to ride bigotry into office. The white working class males who vote against their class do vote for their values. The Dems aren't going to win them back by tacking to the left economically. They will win them back either by delivering goods (such as health care and job security) or convincing the Archie Bunkers of the world that it really doesn't matter whether or not the gay folks can marry as long as everyone has jobs and decent schools. The former is more doable, at least in the short term, but the latter is more robust.
At this point, the Democratic strategy, such as it is, seems to be to let the Republicans do whatever they want, which will inevitably lead to them running the country into the ground. One thing that Bush's control of both Houses of Congress and the SCOTUS has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt is that when these people get the reins of power into their hands, they are corrupt, stupid, and incredibly contemptuous of the voting public. Kerry's choice of Edwards makes it much more possible that the Dems will be able to sell that message for at least the next four years, which might be enough time for us to repair some of the damage.
Posted by: Kimmitt | Jul 19, 2004 3:43:48 AM
Couple points here. One is that fusionism was an explicit GOP strategy crafted by Buckley and Goldwater as they saw a chance to forge a political realignment.
At the same time, you had the decline of US heavy manufacturing after WWII.
Now, one thing about your current Dem pro-worker policies is that much more pro-service (urban) than pro-manufacturing (no longer an urban phenomenon). Throw in environmentalism, and you've got a real problem.
Posted by: praktike | Jul 19, 2004 4:58:38 AM
"If you think leftwing economics are right on the merits, then good for you, and good luck trying to convince me..."
Should we nationalize industry and stop international trade? No.
But are you really not for:
- Universal Health Care
- Universal Higher Education
- Government Funded Childcare
- Better Funding for Infrastructure
- A More Progressive Taxcode
- More Help for the Working Poor
Posted by: Petey | Jul 19, 2004 5:39:44 AM
that looks good petey but I think you'll find that in areas with constricted housing, all these cost savings for the middle class will be just captured in higher real estate prices and higher rents, since housing is our #1 expense and demand is inelastic.
The price of land, driven by people looking to make an easy buck instead of doing productive work, in this country is IMV a pretty fundamental issue too.
Posted by: Troy | Jul 19, 2004 6:42:26 AM
"that looks good petey but I think you'll find that in areas with constricted housing, all these cost savings for the middle class will be just captured in higher real estate prices and higher rents..."
Civilized countries deal with this by subsidizing mass transit like crazy.
And don't forget that a large component of real estate prices are tied into school district hunting. To relax the real estate stranglehold, fix the worst school districts, continue keeping a lid on crime, and subsidize mass transit. Then folks will feel a bit more relaxed about where they live...
Posted by: Petey | Jul 19, 2004 7:18:31 AM
If the Democrats actually did what Frank accuses them of doing, I'd be a die-hard Democrat. Populist economic rhetoric like Edwards' is the only reason I don't vote Democrat. Democrats are economically way too far to the left for my taste.
Posted by: Xavier | Jul 19, 2004 8:56:53 AM
I might just mention that George Will (as well as one of the egregious Oxblog types, who has recently been picked up by the New York Times) really, really, ever-so-tremendously admires the wonderful Kansas people for thinking of Higher Things and not having a petty, crass interest in their own economic welfare. Frank is, you know, a snob, unlike them. Because American politics really isn't about money or the economy; how could anyone possibly think that it is?
One factor not mentioned so far is campaign contributions. It's not so much that economically left policies don't work with voters (specifically with white working class rural men, but also with various related groups such as their wives and daughters, urban white working class, etc.), but that they don't work with donors.
The Democratic Party has completely bought into media-heavy campaigning. This means that enormous amounts of funds must be solicited, and issues important to people with money become dominant. Your stereotypical Hollywood liberal will be strong on anti-Falwell social liberalism and maybe the environment, but he probably isn't so strong (understatement) on the labor laws protecting his help, or anything raising his taxes much. (Remember the 1992 nanny scandals?) And the liberals from the business world are even worse.
Furhtermore, the large media organizations we deliver these piles of money to have their own corporate interests, so we end up paying money to people who are unlikely to give us value for the dollar in the end, but who will probably shank us -- the way they did Gore.
So one reason the economic-liberal message doesn't work in Kansas is that IF the Democrats were to put out such a message, it might not even reach Kansas at all, because the party would be broke.
I think that a successful economic-democracy campaign would be labor-intensive feet-on-the-ground local stuff, like the old civil rights movement or labor movement. And no offense to the master of the present site, but the people hired wouldn't be up-and-coming Ivy League dweebs chilling for a year before grad school, but neighborhood kids going part-time to Pittsburg State who will be happy to get the job and who will take it seriously.
As I said, that kind of appeal has to have something concrete in view (e.g. national medical insurance) and people really have to believe that it's going to happen. You can't run on abstractions and distant possibilities.
P.S. Yes, the Democratic Party will always have to buy some media. I'm talking about changing the mix.
P.P.S One of the risks we're dealing with is the development of a large class of people which isn't politically represented at all. DLC Democrats seem oblivious to this prospect. Falwell, Robertson, and even Buchanan are far from the worst demagogues imaginable. That's no a joke. And even during the present slump, we're still more or less in good times -- what would happen during a long, serious slump?
Posted by: Zizka | Jul 19, 2004 9:10:55 AM
Xavier the libertarian shows his true colors (you have to edit his mistype to understand what he said). Libertarians will vote for Falwell and Ashcroft if that will bring their taxes down.
Posted by: Zizka | Jul 19, 2004 9:15:17 AM
I want to second Petey's list:
- Universal Health Care
- Universal Higher Education
- Government Funded Childcare
- Better Funding for Infrastructure
- A More Progressive Taxcode
- More Help for the Working Poor
The top 4 would go a long way toward 6.
What exactly is leftwing economics? Is Brad De long left wing economics?
Which side is more protectionist> I thought you had been arguing that (D)s had become more free trade and were continuing to widen the gap, I think that is right.
Is populist economics really a code word for protectionism?
Posted by: theCoach | Jul 19, 2004 9:43:06 AM
Petey: By "universal higher education", you don't actually mean that every 18-year-old person should get a post-secondary degree, do you? Not everyone is cut out for the academic grind. And we need plumbers...
Posted by: next big thing | Jul 19, 2004 10:42:44 AM
Populist politics includes pro-union policies and enforcement of labor laws, closer regulation of corporations, more progressive taxes, and discretionary government spending on programs (health insurance, access to education) that benefit the lower-middle and working classes.
Protectionism is the evil boogieman under your bed that's gonna getcha if you fall asleep.
Posted by: Zizka | Jul 19, 2004 10:57:26 AM
"Is populist economics really a code word for protectionism?"
Partially. There has been some discussion here and elsewhere about how allowing the Chinese & other cheap labor countries to float their currencies favors the capital class (outsourcing, trade deficit,etc) but I never really even understood Bryan's "Cross of Gold" stuff.
I might also throw out there that changes in the tax structure (elimination of much corporate taxation; breaks for individual investments) have not particularly increased America's saving rates, but have changed the ways American business measures success, to the detriment of the working class.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 19, 2004 11:02:01 AM
While agreeing that race is at the root of the problem, quiddity and digby's points above seem to lead to the conclusion that the demographic we're talking about is hopeless and that all we can do is find some kind of temporary work-around, or maybe hope that they quit voting entirely. Since "white working class men" are not a niche group, but something like 20% of the population (.8 x .5 x .5, and you really have to add in most of the women too), that casts a very dark shadow on US politics. Either we go racist and get them, or we don't and we lose them.
Posted by: Zizka | Jul 19, 2004 11:08:00 AM
"Either we go racist and get them, or we don't and we lose them."
Well, let's not go racist. We have been facing this since the 1960's, but I think the wave of working class white resentment of African-Americans has started to ebb. I suppose this might be wishful thinking though.
Posted by: Levi | Jul 19, 2004 11:22:57 AM
"Either we go racist and get them, or we don't and we lose them."
That wasn't my proposal, but what seems to be the consequence of the Digby-quiddity thesis.
Posted by: Zizka | Jul 19, 2004 11:35:35 AM
Quiddity: Frank discusses race in the book and claims it isn't the same for the plains as it is for the south. There were two right turns in US politics. One is race-based: losing the south after civil rights. The one this discussion is about was earlier - around 1900 - and lost the plains.
Digby: Wedge issues were used before NAFTA. Frank acknowledges this. Since D's have abandoned class as a political concept wedge cultural issues are now the only visible difference for plains-state conservatives.
Praktike: I don't think labor and environmentalists are conflicting interest groups. In many other countries labor-green interests cooperate on the same side of the political spectrum, often in coalition. That they seem mutually exclusive is only because the right has successfully caused a divorce of the two and the left has allowed it.
Xavier: I think you're a Republican.
Posted by: mark from kansas | Jul 19, 2004 11:46:44 AM
Four points:
1) Racial issues, cultural issues, and economic issues do not exist independent of each other. "Small government" rhetoric has been popular among working class whites because Democrats are perceived as taxing the majority for the benefit of the minority (read: poor Blacks, Latinos). Economic politics is largely about distributional politics, and since the War on Poverty, distributional politics has been heavily influenced by racial politics.
2) Given that understanding, and the simple fact that "working class" Blacks and Latinos are much poorer than "working class" white men (on average), it's quite easy to see how Democrats could articulate a message that resonates with the former but not with the latter. There are not many blue-collar males who are Medicaid-eligible, who receive food stamps, who send their kids to schools that get Title I funding. Not to mention affirmative action. All of these liberal policies are perceived as imposing costs on the white working class to the benefit of poor minorities.
3) The party has worked on this problem since '92, but is still struggling against a 35-year development. People vote on the basis of general perceptions informed by experience-based prejudices. Things do not change overnight.
4) Cultural populism is not just about Bible-thumping social conservative wackjobbery about sending gays to hell, banning abortions, prayer in schools, etc. It's much broader and diffuse than that. Too many of us underestimate it and/or don't understand it fully (myself included).
Posted by: Shankar D | Jul 19, 2004 12:27:22 PM
"One thing that Bush's control of both Houses of Congress and the SCOTUS has demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt is that when these people get the reins of power into their hands, they are corrupt, stupid, and incredibly contemptuous of the voting public."
No, that's obvious to you. It's not obvious to people who vote based on fundamentalist values and nostalgia for an imagined golden age.
Posted by: paperwight | Jul 19, 2004 12:31:03 PM
You might do well to read the book - the op-ed is kind of like a trailer for the movie. You might think you know what it's about, but there's a lot of depth missing.
Posted by: Simon St.Laurent | Jul 19, 2004 1:23:12 PM
"What the "working class conservatives" analysis misses out is that outside of Kansas a really large proportion of poor people are black or Hispanic, and those people certainly feel that the Democrats stand for working class interests and they, in turn, support the Democrats. Another large class of poor people consists of single working white women who, again, support the Democrats.
The upshot is that Democrats don't have a "working class problem" it's a white working class problem and, to a large extent, a problem with white, working class men."
It seems to me you could look at this from the other perspective. Instead of supporting the Democrats because of there working class politics, blacks support Democrats because of their civil rights and affirmitive action(as they should, why vote for someone who's for giving you a better deal.) White, single working women support Democrats because of their prochoice positions. They're the ones voting against the economic self interests of there communities.
Good post, regardless.
Posted by: Chad | Jul 19, 2004 2:09:58 PM
Some follow-up comments:
I do not see the situation as hopeless. I already see substantial integration of African Americans into the mainstream, along with a diminished disdain by the majority. My point was that the race aspect in politics is real, but had maximum bite in, say, the 1970's and 1980's (remember Reagan's remarks about welfare queens?). I believe that we are making progress and that we are near the half-way point in eliminating (or greatly reducing) race as a political factor.
Regarding race attitudes in Kansas vs The South: I cannot speak from experience about those regions, but here in California race matters. I consider California to be relatively neutral on race (compared to the other states) having extremely limited involvement with the slavery issue (e.g. Civil War). So from my perspective, if race matters in California, I assumed it mattered about the same in Kansas and more so in the Old South.
Posted by: Quiddity | Jul 19, 2004 2:23:08 PM
Shankar illuminates the issues:"Not to mention affirmative action." I teach students who are primed to accept left-wing, interventionist economic arguments. But you should see the effect on the whites in the class when I show them the oyez.org summaries of the dozen most important affirmative action cases, including the most recent Grutter case from Michigan. They very quietly seethe in their chairs. Good luck in trying to penetrate that seething resentment. No bromides from Harvard and Yale grads who effortlessly assume that they write the best term papers and policy analysis will overcome the perceptions of students at state schools that they are being shoved aside for Kerry and his 3000 Ivy League writers and analysts. Rove, unfortunately, feasts on this result.
Posted by: g-lex | Jul 19, 2004 2:34:19 PM
Chad writes, "White, single working women support Democrats because of their prochoice positions. They're the ones voting against the economic self interests of there communities."
I don't know anyone who votes soley on prochoice stance. It so happens that the party that is more prochoice also supports equal pay, is less inclined to suggest your place is in the kitchen or in a low paying job that supplements family income, is more likely to support family leave, is more friendly towards the environment and people in general.
Posted by: karol | Jul 19, 2004 4:21:42 PM
Some real confusion here. Franks makes a very interesting discussion, but remember that 70% of our population is urban or suburban.
The same cannot be said for power in the statehouse or the Congress. The power of the rural voter is amplified by the gerrymander, the bicameral legislature, the committee system, and the seniority system.
Changing this won't be easy because these rural votes are a real bargain for corporations or business associations that want to buy power in the legislature.
Throw in a few checks and balances, monopoly groups like the AMA, and the Democratic willingness to 'strike a deal' and you have a recipe for stagnation. Propositions, like legalizing pot, that routinely poll over 60% approval, don't have a chance in this environment.
The quickest way to change this would be not to allow advertising or lobbying as a deductible business expense. If they had to pay the full tax rate on that money they'd look a little closer at what they're buying.
Posted by: serial catowner | Jul 19, 2004 5:57:53 PM
Any party capable of building a majority in American politics has always had to build a coalition of diverse and sometimes antagonistic interest groups. The trick is to make your coalition bigger and/or more unified than the other side.
The New Deal Democrat coalition of white working class voters, minorities, and liberal intellectuals hinged on economic populism and opposition to unbridled corporate power. It fell apart over civil rights, cultural issues, and growing dissatisfaction with taxes and big government bureaucracy.
The Republicans built their winning coalition out of a variety of groups who were opposed to the federal bureaucracy and its values-- big business interest groups opposed to labor-friendly policies, fiscal conservatives opposed to high taxes and federal spending, religious conservatives opposed to secular public schools and progressive values, suburban voters disturbed by inaction about urban crime (as well as school busing, affirmative action, welfare, and other government programs they believed benefitted minorities at their expense), and nationalist hawks disturbed by dovish foreign policy and mass immigration.
In other words, the only glue holding together the Republican coalition was opposition to old Democrat policies... thus the constant use of the "L" word in ads.
However, the Democrats have been working to change the ground rules. Clinton and the DLC pioneered the "third way" economics, welfare reform, and other policies that reduced the GOP's dominance over business issues and reduced the GOP's sway over suburban white voters. Additionally, Bush's general fiscal incompetence hurts the GOP's hold over fiscal conservatives. The Patriot Act also costs the GOP credibility with the anti-big-government crowd. And the mismanaged war has helped solidify the Democrats' base and reduce the allure of the Republicans' ultra-nationalist foreign policy.
In other words, the only part of the Republican's coalition they aren't having any trouble holding onto is the religious right. But this is a double-edged sword. Many fiscal conservatives, libertarians, and suburban voters are less than enthused by the anti-abortion/gay-bashing/creationist wing of the GOP, and some of them can be persuaded to vote Democrat. But if the GOP keeps hiding the religious right in the closet during their conventions, and keeps failing to end abortion or put prayer into public schools, they'll have a hard time mobilizing their base. In order to turn out the base, they have to shoot themselves in the foot.
The new Democrat winning coalition will mobilize urban and suburban voters to streamline and improve our public services, balance labor rights with growth-oriented policies, prevent erosion of civil liberties (while giving the country some time to grow out of its homophobia before pushing for gay marriage), and simply allowing the GOP to paint themselves into a corner as the party of fiscal irresponsibility, provincial bigots, and neocon crackpots.
In other words, run against "Texas conservatism," just as the Republicans once ran against "Massachusetts liberalism." Here's a buzz phrase for Democrats: "Civic values." Here's a message-- the Republicans are irresponsible extremists who can't be trusted.
Posted by: Violet | Jul 19, 2004 7:28:37 PM
Shankar D has hit the nail on the head.
But at the same time, bible-thumping makes for a good sound bite, and so it plays pretty well. At least here in the armpit of Texas.
Posted by: justa grata honoria | Jul 19, 2004 7:36:07 PM
Here's some voting data (courtesy of Nathan Newman) that I think help make Tom Frank's point, contrary to what Matthew says:
http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/001247.shtml
In sum, the study says that although union households have political views that are only marginally more liberal than those of non-union households, union households tend to vote Democratic in far greater numbers than do non-union households.
White males who were not union members voted 31% for Gore in '00; those who were voted 48% for Gore. Even white females in non-union households voted only 44% for Gore.
This suggests that organizing on bread-and-butter economic issues may well be a winning strategy for populist Democrats, doesn't it?
Posted by: Tom Geraghty | Jul 19, 2004 8:56:42 PM
After reading some of the snarky comments about white males (working class only) on this thread, I can understand why they don't vote Democratic.
Speaking as a person who spends a great deal of time with working class males in a red state (not the South), I don't detect anymore racism in them than in the average population.
Mr. Franks' is dead on in his analysis. I know because I live in this scenario every day. I have had his opinion for quite sometime, I just wish that I had thought of writing a book about it.
I always thought that Clinton was a closet Republician. Never could take him and his smarmy snake oil salesman act. Bush is a lot like Clinton, only less smooth.
I was glad to see Edwards nominated as Vice President. Finally, someone to speak to the average person the way the great Dems of the past did. I don't even mind Kerry, he has a lot of gravitas which would make a nice change in a President.
As for protectionism, bring it on. Until the American worker is protected as much as the American corporation and investor class, protectionism is the way to go.
Posted by: lYNNE | Jul 19, 2004 9:47:32 PM
The only thing I'd add to Matt's excellent analysis is that there are other explanations, aside from the 'working class' frame, for the groups Matt mentions - blacks, hispanics, women - to support the Democratic Party, and, at least in the op/ed, Frank really does seem to be focusing on middle and rural America, which is largely white.
Frank may be right in his thesis, but we might want to ask if his thesis is too narrow. Class thinking has indeed seemed to go out of style, and one would be hard-pressed to say that black Americans so overwhelmingly vote Democratic because of 'working-class' concerns, or that Hispanics do, or that poor white women do (though the best case for this might be poor white women).
Yet I've talked to friends of mine, black Americans, who comment on a strategy of 'divide and conquer', by the elite, and that overly focusing on this or that social issue, or cultural issue, lets the financial elites manipulate the little guys. And that analysis makes a lot of sense, but one would be hard pressed to anticipate either party pushing that meme, unless it's the John Edwards "Two Americas" theme, which he remarkably was still pushing here in Newport Beach the other day, and to a bunch of rich yacht club folks (calling them the one America that his populist message uses as a counter-balance!).
So maybe the times they are a'changin, and Kerry will come with an innovative strategy to win start winning back America to not only the Democrats' bread and butter the past few decades, but to a working class message that in an age of globalism insecure and troubled Americans are waiting to hear.
It's all gravy that Clinton reinvented welfare, I guess, but the bottom-line is that we need a social safety net to protect people from the tectonic changes that the opening up of the global economy has begun to generate.
And this as the federal government becomes less able (though this was always overblown anyway) of manipulating levers to try and steer the economy. The global economy is pretty much out-of-control, and competition ramping up, so in this maelstrom we need to assure that people aren't afraid of going under, of going without a check (from somewhere), whether or not we require them to get retrained or do community service or what not.
The jobs have to be there, and if they aren't, then we have to be there for them. And if John Kerry can spell this out, and let the people know he will be there for them, that he will tax those who are making out like bandits just enough to assure everyone is fed, housed, and provided with community-based or funded training, or grants to form their own business, then they will listen.
And don't forget that private debt is at epic highs in America. Stress levels are at related highs, and with the added stress of uncertainty in the face of change and globalization, along with concerns about terrorism and security, we need to do what we can to avoid breakdowns, and contagions of despair, amongst the American spirit.
Every single unemployed person in America should be given aid, and provided training, or given other options, if even required to perform service, indefinitely, because that's how a community should adapt in the face of change and when there just aren't enough jobs for everyone.
Posted by: Jimm | Jul 20, 2004 3:17:30 AM
karol writes, "I don't know anyone who votes soley on prochoice stance. It so happens that the party that is more prochoice also supports equal pay, is less inclined to suggest your place is in the kitchen or in a low paying job that supplements family income, is more likely to support family leave, is more friendly towards the environment and people in general."
I think the abortion issue has more one issue voters than any issue in the country. Your limited experience with such people, for or against, doesn't preclude that it is commonly accepted as a fact.
Nathan Newman had a post on women's pay from a study and it came down the the majority of the difference in pay is the fact that women through biology shoulder a greater portion of the burden of child birth. Some single women feel they should be compensated for this burden by their employer.
Posted by: Chad | Jul 20, 2004 12:57:21 PM
White, single working women support Democrats because of their prochoice positions. They're the ones voting against the economic self interests of there communities.
I know I'm really late on this, but I think you mean that these women are voting against the cultural self-interest of their communities. What, exactly, does the corporatism of the Republican party do for the working class of the United States? Seriously? And if one is going to make the case that Republicans are good for the working class through that trickle-down meme, I'd like to see some proof, especially since everyone originally involved in that Voodoo Economics has basically disavowed it.
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