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Let's Try Again

The esteemed Paul Waldman responds to my doubts about the merits of "Democratic Goldwater moment" thusly:

But those of us who want 2004 to be "our 1964" aren't really talking about abject electoral failure, we're talking about a kind of mindset that came out of it. Here I'll second Kevin Drum's pleas that everyone should read Rick Perlstein's Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus. As Perlstein shows, Goldwater's troops were true believers. After 1964, they forever disabused themselves of the notion that any particular politician would bring about the achievement of their ideological goals. They decided that building a movement came before winning elections. They set about creating strong institutions that would push their agenda. They were patient - instead of wondering which of their beliefs should be modified to suit prevailing opinion, they thought about how to bring the public around to their way of thinking, even if they knew it could take decades. And they gradually took over the Republican Party.

When conservatives point proudly to 1964, it isn't about what happened in that election or the ensuing few years, it's about the seeds that were sown.

I think that sort of misses the point Brad and I were trying to make.

The point is that while the focus, grit, determination, organizing, and institution-building that Goldwater's footsoldiers undertook after 1964 did allow them to seize control first of the Republican Party and then of the federal government, doing this has required them to ditch Goldwaterism -- the substantive things they stood for back in 1964 -- in a much more far-reaching way than anything anyone has proposed for the Democratic Party.

It's important to get the chronology straight here. The period from 1932-1964 is fondly remembered as a time when self-identified liberals were very successful in getting themselves elected to office and when American intellectual life was dominated by a pretty smug liberal self-assurance that they would continue to do so ever after. As Pearlstein's excellent book (no disagreement on this) shows, the conservative movement from 1964 onward managed to an "Unmaking of the American Consensus" that turned self-identified conservatives into a force to be reckoned with.

At the same time, however, it was only after 1964 that liberals managed to achieve such minor things as the creation of Medicare, Medicaid, federal assistance to education, the raft of means-tested anti-poverty programs, regulation of the environment, civil rights, gay rights, legalized abortion, and the whole raft of other things associated with feminism. Ronald Reagan managed to implement some non-trivial cuts in domestic spending, but these were all cuts in programs that didn't exist when John F. Kennedy was president. Environmental protection didn't come in until the Nixon administration. Reagan managed to roll some of it back, before needing to retreat somewhat in the face of a political backlash in 1983. Then under Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton the environment got even more protected. Bush is now rolling those protections back to some extent, but realistically the regulations will be sterner than they were before Reagan took office, to say nothing of comparing them to where they were at the time of the Goldwater campaign.

Repealing the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts are, obviously, non-starters from the standpoint of 2005. Even under a worst-case scenario the conservative movement couldn't possibly re-implement the nationwide ban on abortions that existed as recently as the late-1960s, and they wouldn't even think of mounting a serious effort to roll back the general acceptance of women taking on leading roles in American political, economic, and civic life.

Medicare didn't exist when Goldwater ran. It's only gotten bigger since then. Under George W. Bush it just got much bigger. Bush may or may not get away with scaling Medicaid back somewhat, but even if he gets everything he wants on this front (which is unlikely) the program will still be a lot bigger than it was when Ronald Reagan was inaugurated.

I could go on and on like this, but the point remains the same. The only element of the Goldwater platform that's still even vaguely on the table is getting rid of Social Security, but even here the Bushian proposal is both unlikely to succeed and considerably more moderate than what Goldwater was asking for.

Now I quite agree with the general point that progressive politics could use more institutions and more grit and determination à la post-Goldwater movement conservatism. Nevertheless, this shouldn't obscure the actual facts, which have a tendency to provoke a counterproductive liberal defeatism. In particular, one Goldwateresque lesson people need to do a better job of keeping in mind is that the goal of liberals is to win successes for liberalism not to win power for the Democratic Party. It would be really, really, really easy for Democrats to win elections if the GOP actually stuck to a Goldwateresque platform of rolling back civil rights and eliminating the federal role in health care and education, but it would be a bad thing for the country. But insofar as winning power does matter (and of course it's hardly irrelevant) it's also important to be clear that despite the conservative movement's automythologizing it simply didn't gain power by clinging dogmatically to its early-1960s views.

Another part of the lesson is simply that there's an assymetry between progressive and conservative politics and progressives can't succeed by merely mimicking things that have worked for the other side.

February 25, 2005 | Permalink

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» Goldwater Redux from Political Animal
GOLDWATER REDUX....Rick Perlstein emails some thoughts about Barry Goldwater, the birth of modern conservatism, and the transformation of modern liberalism — all inspired by the blog discussion that's been going on over the past week about his book Bef... [Read More]

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» Goldwater Redux from Political Animal
GOLDWATER REDUX....Rick Perlstein emails some thoughts about Barry Goldwater, the birth of modern conservatism, and the transformation of modern liberalism — all inspired by the blog discussion that's been going on over the past week about his book Bef... [Read More]

Tracked on Mar 2, 2005 5:00:25 PM

Comments

> and they wouldn't even think of mounting a serious
> effort to roll back the general acceptance of women
> taking on leading roles in American political, economic,
> and civic life.

Actually, if they elect Jeb or similar in 2008 I think they will and are going to try for things like this. They very senior guys in the Bush Administration are very similar to the rulers of Iran in a number of ways.

Cranky

Posted by: Cranky Observer | Feb 25, 2005 2:45:58 PM

The point I was going to make is the very one Cranky just proved. If Matt is right (and he is), then that should place constraints on how one characterizes, say, the legislative programs of Reagan, Gingrich, etc, to say nothing of Bushes I and II. It's not honest to describe reductions in rates of growth of programs that have greatly expanded since 1964 and that didn't even exist during the New Deal as amounting to a return to the Gilded Age. Every attempt to trim, stop, or even just slow spending or regulation gets characterized as a radical attempt to undo the Great Society and the New Deal, even if they would leave a much larger program or more extensive regulatory apparatus than existed at the end of LBJ's presidency in place.

Moreover, Matt's post undermines the common "You guys control the whole federal government; how can you still feel like you're the underdogs?" trope. Honest Goldwaterites *should* feel like underdogs; they keep losing on what actually matters to them even as their copartisans keep winning elections.

Posted by: Jacob T. Levy | Feb 25, 2005 3:06:33 PM

Good post. Perhaps, then the lesson should be, why did Goldwater conservatives have to give up a good bit of small conservatism? Part of the answer, I think, is the need for a viable political movement to have some sort of patronage machine. Thus, you see faith based charities, tax cuts, special favors for business, Delay's take over of K street, etc. This is why you can't just chuck teacher's and public employee's unions and others from the Democratic Coalition al la Kaus and hope to hold or weild power.

Posted by: catfish | Feb 25, 2005 3:22:56 PM

Moreover, Matt's post undermines the common "You guys control the whole federal government; how can you still feel like you're the underdogs?" trope. Honest Goldwaterites *should* feel like underdogs...

Maybe. But that "trope" generally isn't directed toward the "honest" Goldwaterites.

Posted by: JP | Feb 25, 2005 3:31:52 PM

Yes, the Goldwater cons have an impressive organization and currently hold a lot of power, but is it right to assume that the former is responsible for the latter? My understanding was that the modern con movement was borne out of Watergate, not the defeat of Goldwater. Nixon wasn't a Goldwaterist by any stretch, and a lot fewer people were arguing in '64 than '74 that the GOP was in the ashbin. So who really rebuilt the GOP? Were the Goldwaterists the only ones left on the sinking ship in '74? How does this explain the success and influence in GOP administrations of politicians who are Nixon/Ford holdovers (Powell, Baker, HW Bush, etc.) and not all Goldwater conservatives? Does Goldwater conservatism adequately explain the GOP's success with Southern Whites, without which the GOP would still be a minority party? In some ways, I think this is the rooster claiming he caused the sunrise. The Goldwaterites are dominant within the Party machine, but without Southern Whites, without whom there would be no dominance, Goldwaterism is not the driving factor. Strict Goldwater conservatives don't seem to get very far in national politics, even Southern ones (see Gingrich, Newt). Am I missing something?

Posted by: Adam M | Feb 25, 2005 4:07:27 PM

Regarding Jacob's post: Just because right-wing radicals have been heretofore unsuccessful at rolling back the New Deal doesn't for a second mean that isn't what they are about. Maybe Mr Levy could tell us if he believes Social Security is a legitimate function of government, and if not, why we should trust the faction he supports to "reform" it.

Posted by: ktheintz | Feb 25, 2005 4:15:07 PM

Small government conservatism lost a huge chunk of its mass appeal after the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. Before that time, small government ideologues could flog welfare as the quintessential government waste program on "undeserving" and "lazy" (usually black) poor. After welfare reform there really wasn't a particular iconic government program to which ordinary white people could look to and say, "All my tax dollars are being wasted on those people and programs." True-blue small government conservatives continued to believe in cutting government (like Norquist), even after the Welfare Reform Act. But a huge chunk of the Republican electorate (especially social and military conservatives, and working class white racists) no longer saw the government itself as an unmitigated evil. So the Republican Party got smart and abandoned small-government conservatism. They decided to be a governing party that gave people the government programs they wanted. The only carrot they offered to small-government conservatives was tax cuts. With predictably massive and increasing budget deficits Republicans and conservatives are at a crossroads. Republicans can continue to screw the hardcore small-government conservatives by continuing the growth of government and drive up the debt. Or they can reach back to small-government conservatives and alienate much of the GOP voting public who craves government programs, even if it hates gay people and thinks Saddam was behind 9/11. The 2008 primary will be a battle of just this sort. A celebrity non-conservative like Giuliani vs. an ideologue like Santorum or Gingrich vs. a typical Washington insider like Frist vs. an iconoclastic conservative like McCain. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Either way, the Republican Party is a hell of a lot stronger than small-government conservatism.

Posted by: Elrod | Feb 25, 2005 4:15:15 PM

Bush is now rolling [environmental] protections back to some extent, but realistically the regulations will be sterner than they were before Reagan took office, to say nothing of comparing them to where they were at the time of the Goldwater campaign.

Great, but we've used up a lot more of the environment in the intervening time, too. Whether we go back to an earlier style of regulation is beside the point. We're fucked, and getting fuckeder.

Posted by: bobo brooks | Feb 25, 2005 4:15:51 PM

As I said over at MaxSpeak, we have to stop saying that the Medicare drug bill was something can be viewed as a positive expansion of Medicare and Medicaid. It did nothing to try and lower prices while doing quite a bit to put the program even further into the red.

I'm not sure how much the pro-competition measures factored into the cost--whether they reduced it or added to it. No matter, it's a victory, but not really for our side.

Posted by: Brian | Feb 25, 2005 4:35:30 PM

ktheintz-
I think you're being unfair to Jacob Levy (which might be a crime in blog-world). He said that describing certain policies as, "as amounting to a return to the Gilded Age" is inaccurate, and that people should stop doing. You retorted that the people sponsoring those policies want to return us to the Gilded Age. That doesn't mean that particular policies would have that effect, or anything like it. A fairer criticism is to question whether people do incorrectly describe the policies in that way, or whether they normally just talk about the people.

Posted by: washerdreyer | Feb 25, 2005 4:46:07 PM

washerdreyer: I understand the distinction, but to place too much weight upon it is to view particular proposals outside the context of the long-range goals of its proponents.

I have the greatest respect for Jacob Levy, especially his willingness to chat with us here. And to believe that Social Security ought never to have been enacted or to have been held constitutional is perfectly valid, if he does believe that. But if someone who holds those beliefs then proposes to "fix" Social Security, it is then out of bounds to bring up this ideological commitment?

Posted by: ktheintz | Feb 25, 2005 5:15:53 PM

"But if someone who holds those beliefs then proposes to "fix" Social Security, it is then out of bounds to bring up this ideological commitment?"

In particular, if he wishes to destroy Social Security, might he not try to accomplish that goal by proposing a "fix" that has the appearance of saving Social Security, but would have the long-term consequence of destroying it?

Posted by: Les B | Feb 25, 2005 7:03:13 PM

The period from 1932-1964 is fondly remembered as a time when self-identified liberals were very successful in getting themselves elected to office and when American intellectual life was dominated by a pretty smug liberal self-assurance that they would continue to do so ever after.

...

At the same time, however, it was only after 1964 that liberals managed to achieve such minor things as the creation of Medicare, Medicaid, federal assistance to education, the raft of means-tested anti-poverty programs, regulation of the environment, civil rights, gay rights, legalized abortion, and the whole raft of other things associated with feminism.

The lesson I've drawn from my very similar reading of history is that we're currently at a point where it's essential to avoid a Democratic blowout at the polls.

The main reason I opposed nominating Howard Dean for President in '04 is that I thought he'd get slaughtered by 60-40 at the polls, and '04 would become to the Republican agenda what '64 was to the Democratic agenda.

Standing up to an assault on Social Security would have been impossible in the wake of an election like that.

Playing offense when it's essential to be playing defense can lead to catastrophic consequences, given the American legislative system's ordinary gridlock toward achieving big accomplishments.

---

It's also worth noting that of all the accomplishments for the Democratic agenda that Matt lists in the wake of '64, almost all of them that required significant federal legislation were enacted in the single Congress that followed the '64 election, from 1965-1967.

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