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Norman Angell's Second Coming

Brad Delong quotes Thomas Barnett as saying: "Yes, as far as the Core is concerned, you can think of me as the second coming of Norman Angell. But I am Norman Angell with nuclear weapons." Praktike glosses that thusly:

Norman Angell, famously, predicted the end of war due to global economic connectivity ... and was promptly proven wrong in 1914. I guess what Barnett is saying here, based on my reading of his books, is that the prospect of nuclear annihilation is so terrifying that great power war is now a thing of the past, and interlocking flows will lead to a better world.
I think people tend to spend too much time thinking about the predictive content of Angell's work, when the important part is the prescriptive element. John Quiggin got into this in a good review of someone else's book a while back:

The classic refutation of international realism [MY: I don't think that's really what this is a refutation of, but nevermind] was put forward in Norman Angell’s The Great Illusion. Angell argued that in a modern economy no economic benefit could be generated even by successful wars of conquest. Writing for a British audience, Angell’s basic point was that, even if Germany succeeded in establishing political mastery in Europe, workers in the newly subjected countries would still have to be paid, goods would have to be purchased at market prices and so on. Hence, individual Germans would gain nothing from being part of a larger country.

Angell’s argument works even better for social democracies, where territorial expansion or even extension of hegemony produces an unpalatable choice. If the benefits and obligations that go with citizenship welfare state are extended to those under the control of the expanded state, existing citizens will almost certainly be worse off. On the other hand, any attempt to maintain a distinction between citizens and noncitizens is bound to be highly problematic.

Angell’s argument showed, beyond reasonable doubt, that war and territorial expansion are not, in general sensible policies. His views have often been derided on the basis that they were falsified by the outbreak of the Great War in 1914, which was pursued to the bitter end even though it destroyed the global market economy that had formed the backdrop to his analysis. But in reality the outcome proved him right. Of course, Germany, the power most influenced by the arguments of Clausewitz and his successors, reaped nothing but grief from the war. But the attempts of the victorious allies to exact reparations, extend their colonial influence and so on were also entirely futile, exactly as Angell had predicted.
That's the interesting thesis, that great power conflict is futile. The further thesis that an absence of great power conflict is inevitable just turns on the rather uninteresting question of whether or not leaders understand this. I by no means agree with Barnett about everything, but like him I would happily claim that "as far as the Core [roughly, globalization's 'winners' -- the rich countries, India, China, Brazil, etc.] is concerned, you can think of me as the second coming of Norman Angell. But I am Norman Angell with nuclear weapons." The point is that even though we are pre-eminent now, we have nothing to fear from the growth in Chinese, or Brazilian, or Indian power. Nor do we have anything to fear from the prospect that a unifying Europe will become a more coherent -- and therefore more powerful -- actor on the world stage. We call ourselves the second comings of Normall Angell not because connectivity makes conflict impossible, but because it makes it pointless. As Brad Delong put it on an excellent post on Angell a while back:
Norman Angell's argument is simple: It is that in modern industrial warfare between great powers, everybody loses. Losers lose. And the winners lose. Many of their fathers, sons, and husbands are dead. Much of their wealth has been blown up. And it is next to impossible to claim that these sacrifices are counterbalanced by any positive economic advantages. Straightforward plunder of the conquered country yields little. Confiscation of property and the imposition of reparations burdens damages the rule of law on which modern industrial prosperity rests. And even if you do manage to get the conquered country to ship you significant quantities of valued foodstuffs, automobiles, and radios, you then have to cope with mass unemployment among your own farmers and manufacturing workers.
To take a contemporary example, in recent memory Hong Kong was a kind of protectorate of the United Kingdom. Since then, it has fallen under the authority of the People's Republic of China. But since if citizens of the U.K. (or the British government) wished to purchase goods or services produced by the residents of Hong Kong they had to pay money for them in a reasonably free market, and since the citizens of the U.K. can still buy goods and services from the residents of Hong Kong today, the change in sovereignty has no impact on British well-being. Now, of course, when a territory passes from the control of a democray to that of a dictatorship, the residents of the territory may suffer from the change in various ways. Hong Kong, it's worth noting, was not governed democratically even during the British days (until some last-ditch efforts right before the handover) but contemporary Taiwan is a different sort of case and both pose certain moral issues.

As far as actual conflicts of interest are concerned, however, clashes can only bring disaster. Nuclear weapons are relevant because they make clashes less likely (a good thing!) but they also ensure that clashes might become much more disastrous (a bad thing!) The challenge is to try and ensure that the rulers -- and the citizens -- of the relevant powers understand we have much more to gain from working together than from fighting.

March 9, 2005 | Permalink

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Comments

War can be used in democracies and dictatorships for domestic political purposes. Our real strength is in subverting our enemies, usually by brainwashing their children into western consumerism--music, movies, clothes, etc--which is more appealing than politics to kids. I think that it is this frustration that motivates bin Laden as much as our troops on Saudi soil, or our support of Israel. It is our lifestyle that bin Laden hates. But more drugs, sex, rock and rap, feminism, etc., not democracy.

We can achieve our goals without war; using our war machine to stop a counter-push. Patience.

Posted by: epistemology | Mar 9, 2005 5:58:14 PM

Bad summary on my part; thanks for the extended correction.

Posted by: praktike | Mar 9, 2005 7:08:29 PM

since when have political leaders who start wars have the interests of their citizens in mind? They want personal glory.

Posted by: rich | Mar 9, 2005 7:58:23 PM

Another change is that imperialism is not economically profitable anymore. It used to be that you could make a great deal of money selling raw materials produced by colonies. However, world overproduction has dropped prices too low for that. Also, more and more value is being added through industrial technology, so that is where the real profits are. As an example, a &1,000 personal computer is made from only a dollar or two's worth of raw materials.

Also, during the last century colonized peoples adopted Western-style nationalism, and so it became much more costly to keep them under imperial control.

Richard Rosecrance has some interesting things to say on this topic in The Rise of the Trader State.

This is why the left is wrong when it accuses the US of being imperialist. It isn't, as the neocons would have you believe, because the US is democratic and virtuous. Democratic nations can be very imperialistic--think of our own conquest of the continent. Rather, the US is not imperialistic because it couldn't make any money at it.

Posted by: Les Brunswick | Mar 9, 2005 9:09:05 PM

But what about potential resource-conflicts when 6 billion people aspire to Western levels of consumption?

Posted by: roublen vesseau | Mar 9, 2005 9:57:15 PM

"The point is that even though we are pre-eminent now, we have nothing to fear from the growth in Chinese, or Brazilian, or Indian power."
- Delong makes some good points expanding on this in other comments -- we have a lot more to fear from a advanced China fifty years from now looking at history and interpretting the US as trying to keep them impoverished.

Posted by: theCoach | Mar 9, 2005 10:51:59 PM

We need to give humanity a little more credit than the theories that see us as pawns of economic or political forces. The reason war has been steadily diminishing for the last 60 years is so much simpler. We are evolving; we are learning. Two terrible wars killed the glamour of war and it has become clear to all but the less evolved countries like Iraq and America, that war solves nothing. It only creates and magnifies new sets of problems.

In a similar vein, the crime rate is going down all over and it is not because of stiffer sentences, as the conservatives (who don't believe in evolution of any kind) would have it, it is because people feel less like committing crimes. They are evolving; they are learning.

In the list of reasons why we do what we do, evolution of consciousness needs to be given its proper place at the top. Gazillions of learning experiences every day by the billions of people on this planet is the major force that moves us forward. Everything else is just filling the spaces in between.

Posted by: James of DC | Mar 9, 2005 11:01:41 PM

Re: "The further thesis that an absence of great power conflict is inevitable just turns on the rather uninteresting question of whether or not leaders understand this."

A "rather uninteresting question"? Haven't you just exceeded your snark quotient for all time?

Posted by: Brad DeLong | Mar 9, 2005 11:11:58 PM

However, world overproduction has dropped prices too low for that.

There is one exception to this, which is oil.

Posted by: Kimmitt | Mar 9, 2005 11:51:28 PM

The argument is naive. The missing element is critical resources.

DeLong - "Norman Angell's argument is simple: It is that in modern industrial warfare between great powers, everybody loses. Losers lose. And the winners lose. Many of their fathers, sons, and husbands are dead. Much of their wealth has been blown up. And it is next to impossible to claim that these sacrifices are counterbalanced by any positive economic advantages. Straightforward plunder of the conquered country yields little. Confiscation of property and the imposition of reparations burdens damages the rule of law on which modern industrial prosperity rests. And even if you do manage to get the conquered country to ship you significant quantities of valued foodstuffs, automobiles, and radios, you then have to cope with mass unemployment among your own farmers and manufacturing workers."


Well, let's change the playing field and see if this colonial thinking holds up.

Earth Date: 2405 A.D.

Location: Deep space

Issue: Critical life survival raw materials located on two separate unpopulated planets

Problem: Competition for same resources from forces of a planet other than Earth.

Negotiations: Sharing of resources not agreed to by other planet's forces.

Solution: (1) Warfare or (2) loss of critical resources; alternate source is 400,000 light years away (too late to satisfy requirement)

Enemy capability estimate: Defeatable within 4
Earth days; withdrawal from space region anticipated prior to total annihilation (less than 45 Earth days)

Strategy: OODA; weapons mass (multiplier of 60 to 1)

Anticipated Warfare human losses: None (none involved in combat operations)

Anticipated Warfare machinery losses: Managable; minimum impact on Earth defense network or territorial buffer zones; Earth shield can not be penetrated by enemy weaponary

Now apply Norman Angell's argument according to DeLong's interpretation: "It is that in modern industrial warfare between great powers, everybody loses. Losers lose. And the winners lose."

Decision: (you decide)

The issue is level of risk versus critical resources.

Posted by: Movie Guy | Mar 10, 2005 1:57:16 AM

In a world with universally-recognized standards of property rights and elimination of trade barriers, would not the Coase Theoreom apply?

Posted by: Jim D | Mar 10, 2005 2:17:20 AM

There's one major flaw in this argument - and it's in this review: "Norman Angell's argument is simple: It is that in modern industrial warfare between great powers, everybody loses."

As van Creveld points out in his "Transformation of War," the issue isn't about 3rd gen warfare between industrial powers, it's the low intensity conflict that's been going on for the past few decades. Logic dictates that major powers can get more through diplomacy and trade than war - fine. That doesn't stop the wars fought for purposes other than policy - race, regional power, civil war, religion, etc etc. Just because we shouldn't have to worry about India, Brazil, and China being major powers (which I uneasily agree with) doesn't mean that there aren't lots of other minor players that will continue to keep the playing field busy - which is part of Barnett's argument, I guess.

Posted by: J. | Mar 10, 2005 8:33:45 AM

What a bunch of nonsense. Not everybody loses. The power elites don't lose. Weapons manufacturers don't lose. Weapons dealers don't lose. Construction companies don't lose. Casket manufacturers don't lose. Oil companies don't lose - look how well Exxon's been doing in the last couple of years. Plenty of individuals - real and corporate - don't lose, the Cheneys and Bushes of the world don't lose, they win big.

Every time a gun is fired someone's making profit.

Posted by: abb1 | Mar 10, 2005 8:54:27 AM

For forty years of cold war we knew that war between USA and USSR would result in everybody losing.

So we had forty years of proxy wars.

The issue wasn't to "win", the issue was to keep the other guy from winning. We didn't defend south korea because we thought we could make a profit, we did it because we weren't willing to have another communist state gobble up the people who fled from it. We didn't expect to make money on vietnam and neither did the russians who funded north vietnam. We didn't accept communists taking over south vietnam and the russians didn't accept us stopping them for cheap. There was no money to be made in afghanistan, none to speak of, if anything there was money to lose by shutting off the opium trade. But the russians didn't want to see a socialist government shut down by muslim fanatics, and we didn't want to see russia get another country for cheap.

Iraq could have profited from taking kuwait. The dictator of kuwait didn't want to spend much money to stop them, and they had a very effective surprise attack that came rather close to being bloodless. But we weren't willing to let iraq win a profiable war even though we couldn't possibly make a profit stopping them.

The argument simply does not apply to the cold war, and it doesn't apply to the post cold war. It's a good argument, though, and it might apply to somebody else somewhere else at some other time.

Posted by: J Thomas | Mar 10, 2005 10:24:27 AM

>kimmet: There is one exception to this, which is oil.

Yes, but that is because oil prices are fixed by a cartel. But even then, it doesn't lead to war between major powers, because nuclear distruction is so terrible. It doesn't even lead to imperialist wars by major powers to conquer oil producers. That is for two reasons. One is that even oil isn't worth that much today. If it was, then Saudi Arabia, the biggest producer, would be one of the richest nations in the world. The other reason is that it is so terribly expensive today, in dollars and lives, to occupy an oil producing country. Look how hard it is in Iraq, and if we decide to take over it oil, the whole country would rise up.

> abb1: What a bunch of nonsense. Not everybody loses. The power elites don't lose.

If the elite's country loses the war and gets conquered, then the elite will likely lose their heads. If it is a nuclear war, then all the elite on both sides get killed.

>j thomas: For forty years of cold war we knew that war between USA and USSR would result in everybody losing.
So we had forty years of proxy wars.

The point is we didn't have a direct war, which would have been infinitely more distructive. I think that is a pretty big difference.

>movie guy: The argument is naive. The missing element is critical resources.

Barnett is not making a theoretical argument true for all time. He is just talking about the world of today, and the foreseeable future.

>james of DC: The reason war has been steadily diminishing for the last 60 years is so much simpler. We are evolving; we are learning.

Really? So the fact that war has become 1) econmically unrewarding 2) infinitely more dangerous, has had no impact whatsoever on how nations behave? It is entirely, 100% due to learning?

>roublen vesseau: But what about potential resource-conflicts when 6 billion people aspire to Western levels of consumption?

The question is whether major powers will go to war. Given how distructive nuclear weapons are, I doubt they will to to war over resources. Instead you will see improvements in efficiency and alternative technologies.


Posted by: Les Brunswick | Mar 10, 2005 8:18:33 PM

Les Brunswick

Good post.

I'll stick with critical resources for the foreseeable future, though. The clock is ticking on a few of those resources.

Posted by: Movie Guy | Mar 12, 2005 1:31:18 AM


Most of the time the elite loses. This is generally true of the losing side. But even on the winning side, going to war hasn't been a good move for elites in many cases. The leaders who started WWI had all been displaced by the time the war ended, fatally so in the case of the Russians.

In terms of Angell's argument, if war impoverishes the victor country as a whole, it can be beneficial to the elite only if it allows them to extract a substantially increased share of national resources. So you can choose between an Angell analysis (wars are futile) a Marxist analysis (wars are waged by ruling classes against their own subjects) or a mixture of the two.

Posted by: John Quiggin | Mar 12, 2005 5:49:28 AM

Most of the time the elite loses.

What's 'most of the time'? War is a gamble. The elite of the winning side wins; it acquires new markets, colonies, natural resources and so on. The elite of the losing side loses.

Isn't it rather obvious? I don't think contrarian ideas make much sense here.

The USSR and the US won the WWII; both were sorta peripheral states before and both became superpowers and global-scale empires after. Where's the win-lose here? Come on, don't buy nice-sounding stuff just for being nice-sounding.

Posted by: abb1 | Mar 12, 2005 11:26:25 AM

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