« Republicans Cause Bankruptcy | Main | Better Data Please »

The Netroots' Shallow Roots

Praising Joe Lieberman's opposition to the bankruptcy bill when Joe Lieberman is only pretending to oppose the bankruptcy bill is just about the height of absurdity, but I'll assume it's an honest mistake. Certainly the Lieberman press release was a good one, and well-worth quoting. It's just the voting record that's problematic. Ed Kilgore, meanwhile, more insightfully reminds us that the only thing real people care about nowadays is the Jacko trial. My colleague Sam Rosenfeld says he hasn't been following this closely, but he's been following it at least a bit more closely than I have, and persuasively argued to me the other night that Jackson is innocent. I also meant to link to the Monday Kilgore on how the vast majority of people don't read blogs, and also add that many of those who do probably don't read much in the way of political blogs. This thing of ours is a good way of trying to influence elite opinion and maybe alter the media climate, but it's an enormous mistake to confuse it with anything like a viable basis for a mass political movement. Now, one assumes that the internet will only grow in ubiquity in the future, that today's old people will be tomorrow's dead people, and that hopefully the country will continue to become better educated and so at some point that may no longer be the case. But one must live in the now, at least for now.

March 11, 2005 | Permalink

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8345160fd69e200d8345a2d4c69e2

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference The Netroots' Shallow Roots:

» Does low blog readership matter? from Martin Stabe
Third Avenue, posting at The Sharpener, bemoans the low readership of British political blogs compared to the big American blogs. But how much of a problem you consider a small blogosphere readership depends largely on what your hopes are for... [Read More]

Tracked on Oct 29, 2005 6:48:51 AM

» Does low blog readership matter? from Martin Stabe
Third Avenue, posting at The Sharpener, bemoans the low readership of British political blogs compared to the big American blogs. But how much of a problem you consider a small blogosphere readership depends largely on what your hopes are for... [Read More]

Tracked on Oct 29, 2005 6:52:20 AM

Comments

Actually the vote that mattered was the abortion amendment not cloture. How did Lieberman vote on that?

Posted by: James B. Shearer | Mar 11, 2005 4:53:28 PM

I generally like the Moose, but he has a blind spot on Lieberman that utterly baffles me.

Posted by: Rebecca Allen, PhD | Mar 11, 2005 4:57:55 PM

Praising Joe Lieberman's opposition to the bankruptcy bill when Joe Lieberman is only pretending to oppose the bankruptcy bill is just about the height of absurdity, but I'll assume it's an honest mistake.

Wittman has an blind spot for the failings of Lieberman and McCain. I'm willing to forgive him that given his otherwise stellar insight.

Posted by: Petey | Mar 11, 2005 5:24:37 PM

Jacko's a freak, but it isn't illegal to be a freak. Anyone with all his money must be a constant target of scam artists trying to cut themselves a slice. Someone like MJ, pining for the happy childhood he never had, and exercising such appalling lack of judgment and self-perception, is a natural target. Guess we'll see if he's guilty in this case or not.

Posted by: The Sanity Inspector | Mar 11, 2005 5:25:28 PM

Is it just me or is the Jackson trial getting less attention than OJ? Or am I getting a skewed view b/c I was in college for OJ and now working?

Maybe I watch less TV.

Posted by: Ugh | Mar 11, 2005 5:30:04 PM

The Moose is a pompous gasbag who reflexively confuses centrism with political wisdom.

Posted by: bobo brooks | Mar 11, 2005 5:30:41 PM

I have a love/hate relationship w/ the Moose. Eveytime he pens an ode to national greatness, I tune out. He's right about the culture war trumping the class war, though.

Posted by: praktike | Mar 11, 2005 5:33:44 PM

"He's right about the culture war trumping the class war, though."

It's the part about "Progressive Traditionalists" being the route to a Democratic majority that I love.

Posted by: Petey | Mar 11, 2005 5:39:36 PM

"Now, one assumes that the internet will only grow in ubiquity in the future, that today's old people will be tomorrow's dead people, and that hopefully the country will continue to become better educated and so at some point that may no longer be the case. But one must live in the now, at least for now."

I'm not sure if it would help. Watching more news has meant watching more Fox and actually made people dumber. Maybe more internet people just means more Powerline and Glenn Reynolds.

Posted by: Jamison | Mar 11, 2005 6:02:46 PM

On the other hand, the much-vaunted Bayh did just the reverse: voted against cloture, but for the bill when it finally came to a vote. Is this how he preserves his moderate reputation?

Posted by: Chris | Mar 11, 2005 6:28:36 PM

Is it just me or is the Jackson trial getting less attention than OJ?

No cameras in the courtroom, no dead attractive rich white woman.

Posted by: cmdicely | Mar 11, 2005 6:37:45 PM

"On the other hand, the much-vaunted Bayh did just the reverse: voted against cloture, but for the bill

That means that in the fine gradations of grey, Bayh's behavior is more on the side of the angels than Lieberman's. The vote on the bill was a free vote once the business of cloture was done.

Posted by: Petey | Mar 11, 2005 6:37:47 PM

Watching more news has meant watching more Fox and actually made people dumber.

IIRC, media studies in the 1980s -- before Fox News -- showed that watching more TV news, all other things being equal, tended to correlate with being less informed on current affairs.

Posted by: cmdicely | Mar 11, 2005 6:39:08 PM

Maybe, but I think that there are moves to make it a little bit more mainstream. Chris Lydon who hosted WBUR's the Connection until 2001 is about to launch a new radio program on WGBH that will have a strong web component. It will be distributed by PRI.

From the press release on Lydon's website (http://www.christopherlydon.org):

"MINNEAPOLIS, March 8, 2005 — Public Radio International (PRI) and Open Source Media Inc. announce plans to launch the first radio program to embrace bloggers, Web enthusiasts, and the Internet transformation of media. Open Source from PRI is a lively, hour-long, on-air conversation designed to capture "the sound of the Web" with the popular Christopher Lydon engaging callers, e-mailers, and bloggers from around the world in a range of fascinating topics. Open Source will launch Monday, May 30, in Boston on WGBH Radio 89.7, airing Monday – Thursday at 7 p.m. Starting July 4, PRI will feed the program live nationwide, making it available to its 727 affiliate stations for broadcast and simulcast streaming, and offering additional feeds for stations in other time zones."

Posted by: Abby | Mar 11, 2005 6:47:36 PM

As now the top stories on Google News are a shooting in a Georgia court room and Iran. Michael Jackson is off to the side further down. So it is not the top story.

Also, on Blogpulse top links there are no Jackson stories.

Perhaps the media has overestimated the appeal of this trial.

I would say political blogsphere goes beyond the media elite. I think most politically active people read blogs. So those of us who determine nominations, not just President, but Governor, Senate, etc. are influenced.

Posted by: Alice Marshall | Mar 11, 2005 7:02:36 PM

Open Source will launch Monday, May 30, in Boston on WGBH Radio 89.7, airing Monday – Thursday at 7 p.m.

So Eric Jackson is going to lose an hour? That's just great. Clearly, there's too much high quality jazz programming on the air and not enough talk radio. One would hope that with the changes at 'BUR, they and Lydon could have patched things up and put this show on a station where it belongs. Oh well.

Posted by: Miguel Sánchez | Mar 11, 2005 7:07:19 PM

Miguel,

WBUR can't fire Dick Gordon. I wish that they could, because he's terrible, but I've been waiting four years to get Lydon back. I know that Eric Jackson will be pushed back to 8 PM, but I don't know that he will be losing the hour. The Phoenix has an article up, but what will happen to Jackson's program isn't clear. I'm sure that the planning for this predates Jane Christo's fall from power.

Posted by: Abby Vigneron | Mar 11, 2005 7:21:02 PM

Abby,

You probably know more than I do about the situation, as this is the first I've heard of the news. I agree about Dick Gordon (and ditto for the woman who fills in for him sometimes.) But their evening schedule is pretty light - a new show could fit there. And while Jackson may not lose an hour of net time on the air, having his show (presumably) extended at the late end isn't really compensation for losing the 7 PM opening.

I'm sure you're right about this starting before Christo's implosion - these things take time, after all. It's just a shame that more of GBH's music programming will be sacrified for (good, quality) talk, when there's another outlets for that in town. Perhaps if Lydon's show takes off something will be done to move it over. We'll see.

Posted by: Miguel Sánchez | Mar 11, 2005 7:34:47 PM

One must always live in the now - it's not something you're only forced to do when you think about it. In terms of actual actions, it's always now.

Just saying.

Posted by: jnfr | Mar 11, 2005 7:36:35 PM

Miguel,

Tom Ashbrook's On Point is on WBUR programming from 7-9PM. 9-11PM is the repeat of the Connection. I never really listened to the Jazz show and might tune in after listening to Lydon.

Posted by: Abby Vigneron | Mar 11, 2005 8:04:20 PM

9-11PM is the repeat of the Connection.

Which sounds like a great slot for a new show - don't even need to fire Gordon if they can't, just not have him on twice a day. Heck, since Lydon's new one is a single hour, they could even repeat part of Gordon (or an edited, "best-of" repeat) if they wanted to. Of course this isn't going to happen, but I can dream.

I must admit I'm not a big jazz listener anymore, but Eric Jackson runs a great program, one that's important within the music world of Boston. Perhaps I'm overreacting, but after what happened to public radio music programming in DC, I'm a little annoyed by talk radio creep.

Posted by: Miguel Sánchez | Mar 11, 2005 9:00:33 PM

Political blogs have an overlapping audience with other politically-oriented magazines and news sources. The people who read THE NATION and THE NEW REPUBLIC and THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR and who buy books by Eric Alterman and Paul Krugman are the same people who tune into Eschaton and Daily Kos and Talking Points Memo and the like. Similarly on the right wing (NATIONAL REVIEW, AMERICAN SPECTATOR overlaps Instapundit, Tacitus, Powerline, etc.) Those magazines have their audience, and their influence, and blogs are close to competing in that realm.

This isn't a mass audience, but it is an influential one, particularly for certain types of issues. Being able to get an idea out to a hundred-thousand people who are willing to do something about it isn't exactly a giant, broad, social movement (like 1920s-30s labor, or 1950s-60 civil rights), but it is something.

I hate blog tiumphalism as much as anyone, but they really have come quite far in very little time. Kevin Drum has some numbers about how many people get news from blogs, and they're pretty striking, particularly for young'uns.

Posted by: Fmguru | Mar 11, 2005 9:03:28 PM

Please. I dont need a reminder that I am a future dead person. However, us old farts are the ones who have the time to read the blogs. The rest of you are cheating at work.

Posted by: dilbert dogbert | Mar 12, 2005 11:06:26 AM

I don't think of netroots as synonymous with blogs, or dailykos for that matter. Moveon.org is not a blog, but it is netroots. I think Kilgore has it exactly wrong, the netroots is far closer to the grassroots than, say, the DLC. A particular blog may not speak for all of the netroots, but dailykos has a pretty good read on netroots and grassroots sentiment.

There is a lot of political activity on the Internet, political blogs are a small but very useful portion of that activity. The bulk of it is email lists (according to Pew 18% of Kerry voters were contacted via email about the campaign), but the field organizations on both sides made heavy, if unsung, use of Internet applications.

The problem for Kilgore and the DLC is money. The DLC had a lot of good ideas in the '80s, but Democratic politicians turned to them because they were a reliable avenue to corporate money. After BCRA politicians cannot spend corporate money, and are discovering they have less use for the DLC. Small dollars donated over the Internet replaced soft money in the last cycle (see the BYU report), and when you talk to those Internet donors they sound an awful lot like dailkos commenters.

Posted by: tib | Mar 12, 2005 3:04:18 PM

"...but I'll assume it's an honest mistake."

Bull Moose didn't do the homework. Simple.

Posted by: Movie Guy | Mar 12, 2005 9:41:25 PM

Post a comment