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The Bombing of Paris

I suppose this isn't really the point to be made, but shouldn't somebody tell Senator Santorum that this Allied bombing of Paris he's so worried about never happened. Not needlessly wrecking a friendly city (compare and contrast to the "liberation" of Falluja) is a good thing. Why does Rick Santorum hate America?

May 19, 2005 | Permalink

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Comments

Matthew seems not to understand the concept of a hypothetical. One would have thought he would have learned the concept at one of them fancy-schmancy schools he attended...

Posted by: Al | May 19, 2005 11:42:37 PM

Matt: the allies did indeed drop beaucoup bombs on France, so Santorum's metaphor is apt, if slightly less precise than it could have been.

Plus, I'd bet the farm the allies dropped more than a few explosives in the spring of '44 on greater Paris itself if not on Paris proper -- as they sought to destroy Germany's ability to resupply its Normandy-based forces. If anything what Santorum is guilty of is calling it '42 instead of '44.

Posted by: P. B. Almeida | May 19, 2005 11:45:43 PM

Al seems not to understand the concept of STFU. I'll spell it out step by step so you can wrap your neanderthal brain around the concepts:

Shut... The... Fuck.... Up


Christ.

Posted by: drjimcooper | May 19, 2005 11:46:10 PM

Also worth noting is that the Germans abandoned Paris without a fight in '44.

Posted by: praktike | May 19, 2005 11:52:21 PM

Also,

Isn't it ironic that Senator Man on Dog is comparing his side to the Parisians. First they hate France, now they love it. Is it too early to start the Santorum is a flip-flopper meme?

P.S.

P.B. Almeida can also STFU.

Posted by: drjimcooper | May 19, 2005 11:52:55 PM

It is worth noting, however, that the Germans abandoned Paris without destroying it expressly against the orders of Hitler. Not sure it is relevant, but worth noting.


And while we didn't bomb Paris, we blew the shit out of Rouen, Le Harve, and a lot of the ports on the Atlantic and the Bay of Biscay in an attempt to destroy the sub pens.

Posted by: Patrick | May 19, 2005 11:56:10 PM

Did you know that Hitler only visited Paris once in his entire life, and only for three hours?

Posted by: praktike | May 20, 2005 12:03:29 AM

I believe that there was a bombing of Paris coincident with the liberation in the later days of August, 1944. It struck the northeast arrondissments, the ones around La Villette, ones generally populated by the Parisian working class. I think it was Luftwaffe, though, and didn't amount to much.

Posted by: Brian C.B. | May 20, 2005 8:49:44 AM

Prague was also spared, mostly, I think.

I'm trying to think of a city forcibly occupied by the Germans that was heavily damaged by the allies retaking it. Warsaw, maybe?

Posted by: Julian Elson | May 20, 2005 8:57:50 AM

Warsaw was leveled by the Germans.

Something in Italy?

Posted by: Brittain33 | May 20, 2005 9:08:35 AM

I can't think of any major western European cities that suffered major damage from the Allies. Most of the damage were in the east when the Soviets came in. A lot of these were in the USSR (Stalingrad, Kharkov, etc.) But there was fighting in Budapest, which may not count since Hungary was a German ally, though I don't know the extent of the damage.

As for abandoning cities, Rome also was declared an open city when the Germans left.

Posted by: DC Loser | May 20, 2005 9:22:01 AM

"I can't think of any major western European cities that suffered major damage from the Allies. Most of the damage were in the east when the Soviets came in. A lot of these were in the USSR (Stalingrad, Kharkov, etc.) But there was fighting in Budapest, which may not count since Hungary was a German ally, though I don't know the extent of the damage."

Part of that could be due to terrain. Eastern Europe has huge swaths of flat ground or gently rolling hills. Cities were the best terrain to defend in quite often. But cities are recognized to be both fortifications and traps. Western Europe had more natural defensive points - the hills of central Italy, the hedgerows of Normandy, the bridges over the Rhine. There was no need to risk the envelopements that you risk while defending cities.

Posted by: Njorl | May 20, 2005 12:38:26 PM

AFAIR, there were no "major" West European cities with major damage inflicted on them by Allied forces trying to dislodge German occupiers - well, except for Berlin itself in 1945 (does that one count?), and, of course, Warsaw (not really "Western")
However, down the scale of "major": one example does come to mind: Caen, in Normandy was pounded to rubble by Allied bombing and shelling during the campaign following the D-Day landings. Other than that, there aren't many others: contributions from the Military-History Service of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders will be noted!

Posted by: Jay C | May 20, 2005 2:07:09 PM

Can somebody explain the comparison to me? Which Democratic action corresponds to the invasion of Paris? Which statement is analogous to a later complaint against bombing it? Somebody said about that the analogy was apt, but after reading the statement out of context, I don't see how Hitler invading Paris is anything like the filibuster battle. Unless I missed something, the Democrats aren't exactly a juggernaut rolling over the Senate these days.

Posted by: PaulC | May 20, 2005 2:22:01 PM

Did you know that Hitler only visited Paris once in his entire life, and only for three hours?

No, I never saw the Paris Hitler video.

Posted by: PaulC | May 20, 2005 2:24:19 PM

Well, Choltitz did surrender do Leclerc (who was helped/competing with the 4th infantry), but it wasn't without opposing some resistance to the armies, and some fighting with the insurgents before that. Some thousands deads. It's no stalingrad, true, but still.

Posted by: yabonn | May 20, 2005 2:46:58 PM

Can somebody explain the comparison to me? Which Democratic action corresponds to the invasion of Paris? Which statement is analogous to a later complaint against bombing it?

I believe the point is - although it is hard to tell because the analogy is dumb - that pre-WWII Paris is a Senate in which judges aren't filibustered. The Democrats began filibustering judges, which is analogous to the Germans occupying Paris. Finally we have the Allies attempting to retake Paris and Hitler saying 'how dare you try to retake Paris; if you do, you'll destroy it', which is analogous to the Democrats saying 'how dare you try to prevent the filibustering of judges; if you do, you'll destroy the Senate'. In other words, the Democrats, like the hypothetical Hitler, are saying 'how dare you try to restore the status quo ante; by attempting that, you'll destroy the institution'.

That being said, it's a stupid hypothetical (although you'd think that Matthew would realize it WAS a hypothetical - Santorum obviously wasn't trying to say that the Allies really had bombed Paris).

Posted by: Al | May 20, 2005 2:48:02 PM

pre-WWII Paris is a Senate in which judges aren't filibustered

Thanks. That probably is it. Given that I'm having trouble reading the above with a straight face, it's little wonder that the metaphor did not strike me as self-evident.

Posted by: PaulC | May 20, 2005 2:54:33 PM

BTW, I'm trying to figure out how the above analogy would even work. I'm no historian, so for all I know, Germany and France had a treaty that said Germany could move its troops into Paris, but Germany, out of an informal understanding did not typically exercise this provision.

But if not, I think there's a qualitative distinction between a clearly trangressive invasion and the decision to pull out informal stops without violating the rules as officially agreed upon.

Posted by: PaulC | May 20, 2005 3:10:04 PM

Ok, I know it's provincial of me, but I'm a lot more concerned about Santorum's plan to keep me from getting the weather: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05126/499873.stm

Posted by: flip | May 20, 2005 4:10:23 PM

Democrats are sending well-qualified all-American mainstream judges into gas chambers. Their offices are full of lamps shaded by well-qualified mainstream judges' skin. How many more should perish before we do something, dammit?

Posted by: abb1 | May 20, 2005 5:06:28 PM

"Santorum, that's Latin for asshole."

Man, Bob Kerrey sure had that right!

Posted by: synykyl | May 20, 2005 9:14:19 PM

Sorry, Matt, but you're wrong. Paris was bombed by the Allies in WWII: at least once by accident, and at least twice by design. On the night of 3/4 March, 1942, the RAF went after the Renault factory in Boulogne-Billancourt, "just west of the centre of Paris," which was turning out trucks for the Germans. The 390th Bomb Group/570th Bomb Squadron of the U.S. Army Air Force hit the same factory in September 1943, along with the 100th Bomb Group/418th Bomb Squadron.

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