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The Case Against The Jedi
Brought to you convincingly by Tyler Cowen, who suggests that letting these unaccountable, unelected, robed masters control our lives is quite the dangerous state of affairs.
May 19, 2005 | Permalink
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Comments
And, this is probably the way Lucas feels about them. He doesn't paint a very nice and have them totally fail in the end.
Posted by: Fifi | May 19, 2005 3:32:10 PM
Doesn't this smell of a facile rip-off of Tolkein's complaint against the elves?
Not that Cowen's analysis is facile or a rip-off, but that Lucas' vision, if we choose to call it that, is.
Posted by: text | May 19, 2005 4:47:38 PM
So why does anyone take the Star Wars series as anything more than a bunch of shoot-em-ups with cheesy philosophy thrown in to fill up the slow parts?
Posted by: ostap | May 19, 2005 5:13:17 PM
Beats me, ostap. As a certified Star Trek and Tolkien geek, I've never been clear on what people see in the Star Wars. Yeah, like every other white middle-class American boy who was eight in 1977, I saw the first film about a dozen times. The second, twice, I think. The third, once, and I can distinctly remember sitting in the theater, watching Return of the Jedi, and thinking to myself: "Man, this is a pretty bad movie." Star Wars didn't have any grip on me after, oh, 1983 or so, and I really don't understood why it's gripped anyone since.
Posted by: Russell Arben Fox | May 19, 2005 5:25:25 PM
Not related to this but to MY's post on TAPPED - the Navy wants to fight China with ships, not boats. You aren't going to impress anyone with your insight on military matters if you make elementary terminology mistakes.
Posted by: HippoRider | May 19, 2005 5:35:47 PM
So why does anyone take the Star Wars series as anything more than a bunch of shoot-em-ups with cheesy philosophy thrown in to fill up the slow parts?
Most likely because George W. Bush was brought up in this context.
Posted by: PaulC | May 19, 2005 5:56:13 PM
So why does anyone take the Star Wars series as anything more than a bunch of shoot-em-ups with cheesy philosophy thrown in to fill up the slow parts?
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Posted by: JP | May 19, 2005 6:06:33 PM
It's a reasonable argument, but somewhat superfluous. The first Star Wars already made the point very eloquently--but probably unintentionally--that the side you're rooting for could well be the side of ultimate evil: the final scene is lifted directly from Triumph of the Will. Next time you watch Star Wars, think of the Rebel Alliance as a fledgling Nazi party and see how the experience is different.
Posted by: Tom Hilton | May 19, 2005 7:02:06 PM
I think my associate but it best, I qoute...
"Just look at the Jedi’s -
live their lives guided only by their religious beliefs
are celibate
obey their masters no matter what
undergo long apprenticeships
personally go on crusades to destroy what they decide is evil
follow a strict religious code of behavior that regulates their lives
are a separate class of citizen set above the norm
have a higher level of mitochondria or whatever that predestines them for superiority
and THEY are supposed to stand for democracy? That’s pure caste system, witch doctor, feudalism. Stone age sh*t. at least in the empire you could rise up through the ranks. Look at captain piet or admiral piet or whatever in "empire strikes back". In the imperial army you get promoted, as you deserve, until the day Vader decides to choke you. That seems more fair than sitting around waiting for Yoda to get a vibe about how strong you are with the force."
Posted by: Lord Fluffy | May 19, 2005 7:15:24 PM
Tom - I don't think Star Wars made that point at all. I'm interested in where you see the Rebel Alliance painted in such a poor light. The ceremony at the end has a large formation of soldiers. Of course that will always look like some sort of totalitarian state. I don't think it is portrayed in a negative light, it just happens that there would be a lot of soldiers and they would be organized. They are not menacing. Any military organization can be thought of as menacing, but Lucas doesn't portray the Rebel Alliance that way, at least in Episodes IV, V, and VI. I do agree that in the first three episodes (though I haven't seen III yet, just from what I've heard) the Jedi Council is not portrayed as all good.
Posted by: Rambuncle | May 19, 2005 7:18:58 PM
So hipporider, no subs involved?
Posted by: Rob | May 19, 2005 7:20:25 PM
Rambuncle: as I said, I don't think the point is intentional. The fact remains that the final scene (the medal ceremony) is, visually and otherwise, a direct lift from Triumph of the Will. The implication of this reference is to suggest that everything you thought you knew about the Rebel Alliance is wrong--or at least it would be, if George Lucas were using fascist imagery to make a point rather than just because it looks cool.
Posted by: Tom Hilton | May 19, 2005 7:50:13 PM
Tom Hilton... you've reminded me of South Park's "Woodland Critter Christmas." Our heroes save the day, only to learn that the woodland critters are disciples of Satan. How much more interesting if Luke Skywalker had made a similar discovery.
Seeing as how the Jedi Council had already become a calcified relic (no offense, Calcium Man) by Episode I, we now deserve to see them at their prime. More prequels, I say! After Lucas is dead.
Posted by: Grumpy | May 19, 2005 9:44:47 PM
Yep, it's much more specific than saying that the final scene makes the rebel alliance looked totalitarian. It's that George Lucas shot that scene in a way that looks just like the way that Leni Riefenstahl shot her most famous film. I'm sure that's where Lucas got the look of that scene; I'd be shocked if he hadn't seen such a famous film.
If you've ever seen Triumph of the Will, I think you'll find the parallel unmistakeable. And if you haven't seen it, you should. It's not an easy film to watch, but I think that you'll learn more about fascism for having watched it.
Posted by: Matt Austern | May 19, 2005 10:11:51 PM
Actually, the final scene is a pretty straight lift from the final sene in Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. Lucas made it clear that he lifted a lot of the plot and characters for SW from Fortress, and that was one scene I remember being visually quite similar. Of course maybe Kurosawa took it from Will as well.
Posted by: Alan B | May 19, 2005 11:01:03 PM
A friend of mine who studied some Russian history described the original Star Wars as a classic example of a film typed called 'Stalinist Realism'. Luke would be the farm boy from the Collective, Obi-Wan would be the wise old Bolshevik, Leia a party official, Han a black marketeer/capitalist who learns the error of his ways, Darth Vader a Nazi/Czarist official.
Posted by: Barry | May 20, 2005 7:05:41 AM
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_side/index.html
http://www.davidbrin.com/starwarsarticle1.html
Sci-fi novelist David Brin, as is his wont, overanalyzes "Star Wars." I like his stuff on this and "Lord of the Rings".
Posted by: Dan | May 20, 2005 9:30:43 AM
Interesting question: What if there really were a class of markedly superior people among us? Not just superior in small ways that ordinary people could still aspire to like our current elite, but in very large ways: gifted with real psychic ability, unsually long life etc. Even if that class of people were completely wedded to the ethos of democracy, wouldn’t their very existence have a corrupting influence on an egalitarian society?
Posted by: JonF | May 20, 2005 9:40:08 AM
JonF,
Makes you think about genetic engineering.
Posted by: theCoach | May 20, 2005 10:51:45 AM
I'm often struck by how frequently we see "balance" as a teeter totter. What if the balance brought to the force is in fact, one that results in less concentration of it in the jedi/sith, and more in the general population.
Still haven't seen this newest flick, because I have a 2 day old baby at the hospital...
Posted by: dbt | May 20, 2005 11:32:59 AM
Kind of like the resolution in Lord of the Rings (the books more explicitly than the movie). Supernatural Evil is destroyed but the supernaturally good characters like Gandalf and the Elves all leave Middle Earth too, and plain old ordinary humankind is left behind.
Posted by: JonF | May 20, 2005 12:50:49 PM
congrats dbt!
OK, so the argument for the empire is something about how they are for security and rules, etc, and the Rebels and Jedi are elitists who do are not sufficiently democratic, etc.
My argument against the Empire is that they are willing to blow up a populated, innocent freaking planet to crush their enemies.
The ideology doesn't mean anything unless it translates into actual, empirical improvements (pretty tough in a fictional world, but if you buy the story...).
Posted by: theCoach | May 20, 2005 1:14:50 PM
