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For The Kids

Like everyone else, I don't really see an argument in what Maggie Gallagher purports to be an argument about same-sex marriage. It's just a collection of non-sequiturs. Nevertheless, her claim that we need to save "the once-privileged conjugal vision of marriage" as consisting of "the reality that humanity comes in two halves, male and female, who are called to join together in love, not only as a private satisfaction, but in order to make the future actually happen [i.e., have children]" strikes me as worth exploring. In Gallagher-land, this is the time-honored understanding of marriage that only recently has come under assault from SSM advocates and others who see marriage as about intimacy and self-fulfillment.

There are all kinds of historical problems with this account, that I assume you can find spelled out elsewhere. It also strikes me, however, that this "for the kids" mentality is actually pretty novel and in many ways on the rise. I probably haven't seen this better-expressed anywhere than in an article by another reactionary, Caitlin Flanagan's otherwise pretty objectionable "The Wifely Duty":

For many couples child-rearing has become not merely one aspect of marriage but its entire purpose and function. Spouses regard each other not as principally lovers and companions but as sharers of the great, unending burden of taking care of the children. And make no mistake about it: American middle-class families have made child-rearing a dauntingly complex enterprise. My children are still very small, but it has been made abundantly clear to me by friends and acquaintances that I had better get in the market for an SUV or a minivan, because I am soon enough going to be shuttling the children and their friends to a bewildering series of soccer games, soccer parties, soccer tournaments. Already I throw birthday parties with guest lists and budgets that approximate those of a wedding-rehearsal dinner. The curious thing about this labor-intensive variety of parenting is that it has arisen now, when parents—and specifically mothers—have less time to devote to their children than ever before. One can't help finding in these developments a frantic attempt at compensation for the hours some professional-class mothers spend away from their children. Mothering, which used to be a rather private affair (requiring, principally, a playpen, a back yard, a television set, and a coffeepot), has now adopted a very public dimension. Why, of course Sarah So-and-So is a good mother: little Andrew is at Gymboree, Music Rhapsody, Bright Child, and Fit for Kids every week! All of domestic life now turns on the entertainment and happiness not of the adults but of the children. At vacation time my husband and I don't drag our little boys through the Louvre, as I was dragged at a tender age (because my parents wanted to see it, and it would never have occurred to them to consult their children about where to go on holiday). Rather, we check into hotels with elaborate children's pools and nightly fireworks and huge duck ponds.
I've never been married or had children, obviously, but this rings true to me. To an almost shocking extent, nowadays American couples that want to be thought of as doing right by their children dedicate themselves to their kids' contentment almost exclusively. For a parent to participate in some amusement they don't really care for because the kids like it is totally normal. To demand that the kids put up with something the adults want to do is unthinkable. People inconvenience themselves by moving further and further toward the fringes of urban areas in order to be able to afford houses and yards that are, by world standards, simply enormous and huge swathes of these massive spaces are given over to the children. Sentiments like "children are to be seen and not heard" couldn't be be more dead. In essence, couples are expected to more-or-less give up on their lives for a couple of decades in order to raise their kids. To do anything less -- to inconvenience or annoy your children or deprive them of something they might want to do or to have for the sake of something you want -- would be abhorrent and neglectful.

To some extent, of course, it's good to see people dedicated to their children. On the other hand, it's not so surprising that as social expectations of what parents are expected to do for their kids of skyrocketed, that people are increasingly disinclined to actually have children while those who do have children to seem to be increasingly driven a bit batty by the experience. Would it be so bad if the typical middle class family decided to only put in 90 percent of the effort that you usually see today? That would still be an awful lot of effort, after all. And given that humanity has survived for thousands of years, it's obvious that kids do not, in fact, require the extraordinary level of pampering provided to typical American kids nowadays in order to survive.

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Comments

I couldn't agree more. Of course, I don't actually have kids, either.

But Matthew, don't you think that the effort parents put into the kids is as much for the parents' sake as it is for the kids'? After all, my impression is that so much of the effort results from parents using their kids as status symbols: "My kid goes to XXX school." "My kid is on the honor roll." "My kid is a concert pianist." Etc. It's also the same with the whole giant bar/bat mitzvah party thing, no? Status symbol for the parents as much as fun time for the kid?

People love social climbing (as you've noted before, in other contexts). Kids are a convenient way of doing so now.

Posted by: Al | Oct 23, 2005 10:41:56 PM

If this were addressed to some specific category of parental doings, it would be less galling. But, just to tell you, Yglesias, it is really irritating to hear folks who have clearly had a much more advantageous upbringing than you, complain in generalities, about parental indulgence. I stress that the generality is the smack-able part here.

"Would it be so bad if the typical middle class family decided to only put in 90 percent of the effort that you usually see today? That would still be an awful lot of effort, after all."

Are you serious, dude? What does this even mean, after all?

Posted by: spacetoast | Oct 23, 2005 10:51:53 PM

I completely agree. I’ve noticed this with my own family – I have two brothers who are in high school and middle school and the expectations for parental involvement have changed so much since I was their age. When I was in school, if your mother or father came to a few of your meets over the course of the season, that was great. Now, if either parent misses even one game, the other parents act like it’s practically grounds for a call to Child Protection Services.

I have a big problem with how child-centered our society is becoming. It feels like adults are expected to abandon their entire personalities as soon as their first child is born. I think we would have a lot less depression and divorce in this country if Mom and Dad were allowed to take a painting class every once in a while or play on their own soccer league instead of just shuttling little Billy to his art class and Gymboree. The logic behind the whole cycle is just so demented, too: one should give up their own interests so that they can drive their child around to activities that instill a love of art or music or sports...that they will be expected to sublimate and sacrifice one day for the good of their own child. How can that not leave people feeling frustrated and unfulfilled? It’s like our society has forgotten that these pursuits are meant to make our lives more interesting and pleasurable, not to just get some kid into college. And don’t get me started on how these obsessed-over children are going to turn out.

Ugh. Sorry -- you hit a nerve.

Posted by: Becks | Oct 24, 2005 12:20:29 AM

Combined with your pro-teen-sex attitude, this is hardly going to make you a hit with the parental-crowd. But you're right that children have overtaken and consumed the idea of marriage. Ignoring your kids a bit more would do them, and more importantly you, a world of good.

Posted by: Ikram | Oct 24, 2005 12:32:06 AM

When you bring in gay adoption, the SSM issue and the kids issue come apart.

By the way, do you think Maggie Gallagher is calling it SSM to make it sound more like S&M?

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Oct 24, 2005 12:34:27 AM

It is actually possible, I am told, for folks to not have kids, and thus not endure cutting the crust off everyday, or whatever is the thing. What duties, given that, are entailed by creating a human life? That's kind of a serious thing, right? Seriously. Is someone willing to sketch the penumbra between adequate and inadequate parenting?

Posted by: spacetoast | Oct 24, 2005 12:44:45 AM

Also, I support gay marriage unequivocally. And gay adoption even more so. Yay, fags!

Posted by: spacetoast | Oct 24, 2005 12:48:23 AM

Not to invoke the name of one frequently mocked, but I think David Brooks had some good stuff on this in Bobos in Paradise. The other objection to what you're describing is that it turns the kids into full-time "students", since the quintessential bobo activity is Being At School, so all adult activities (such as parenting!) are like grad school, and now all pre-school activities are training exercises.

And, I know this isn't the best outlet for this complaint, but Gallagher's frequent invocation of the phrase "what marriage is about" makes me want to write a full-length rant about this new weasel-word "about", which is now being applied to things that are not, in fact, "about" other things, and in this case it's used like some super-passive-voice way of not admitting what she's saying. Is she saying that marriage was designed for something, that marriage turns out to be well-suited for something, or that she thinks of marriage as being closely related to something? Those are three very different claims, and this "about" crap doesn't commit to any one of them.

OK, maybe that was the rant.

Posted by: DonBoy | Oct 24, 2005 12:54:13 AM

Yes indeed, and Al's corrollary is crucial, I think. A great deal of this stuff kids would probably never think to do on their own, but can get into it, especially when active participation garners desired parental approval. There's a fine line between devoting the all of your life to your children, and using children as the object of social climbing narcissistic self-extression.


"Kids these days" story of the day: At Trader Joe's near the cheese section. Yuppie Mom #17 calls her kids (about 4 and 6, I'd say) over, and asks them which kind of Brie they prefer. They both immediately point to the same one, out of about 20 varieties.

Posted by: djw | Oct 24, 2005 12:55:46 AM

Isn't it true that historically the economic advantages created for married couples (in the US) were created to facilitate having and raising kids? But anyway, how come the exact same sort of statement--same retarded level of generality--from, say, David Brooks, would incur a smackdown here, yet, from Yglesias we are on the way to a circle jerk? Obviously this is Yglesias' site and all, but are people really so schmucky as to not analyze this post?

Fuck, doods!

Posted by: spacetoast | Oct 24, 2005 1:15:24 AM

This isn't really novel territory; doesn't anyone remember "lie back and think of England"? Don't China and Japan pay people to have children?

That said, the allow-your-children-to-eliminate-your-entire-adult-life is a wholly modern American phenomenon. Europe doesn't do things this way, and even in the '80s households still had adult-only or adult-mostly rooms.

There was a good article on the insanity of attachment parenting and its ilk in ... Slate? Newsweek? The Washington Post? I can't recall. And therefore I'm having a hard time finding it.

Posted by: Nicholas Beaudrot | Oct 24, 2005 2:46:25 AM

I'm waiting for the day when someone, an athlete maybe, is being interviewed about the past and childhood and reminisces: When I was growing up, my parents made sure to come to every game. It was nice that they were supportive and all, but couldn't they have given me some space for once?

Posted by: eb | Oct 24, 2005 3:55:44 AM

For some reason people seem to have a hard time finding that middle ground. (My girls are 8 and 6, I'm 29, and no, the plan wasn't to start that early, oops.)

Kids learn primarily from observing their parents. People are not doing their kids any favors by doting on them every minute of the day.

There is a happy medium in these things. My daughters like dance, so they take dance lessons. They also like things like soccer, tumbling, etc. But there's no way in hell my wife and I are spending every spare minute shuttling them around, so they are given their choice of two "activities." They both always choose dance, and then a tumbling class, or baseball, etc. It's a nice manageable amount.

Vacations are no different. Hotels with fireworks and duck ponds? You've got to be fucking kidding me. My wife had never been to Yellowstone, so we went for a week in August. My wife and I had a great time. She loved the geothermal features, and I got some great flyfishing in. My kids weren't consulted at all, and had a blast.

For one of my co-workers, vacation this year is several days at Disneland.

Personally, there's a lot things I'd rather do than spend a week at Disneyland. Like kill myself.

Posted by: gswift | Oct 24, 2005 3:59:41 AM

"Europe" does do things this way... or at least I keep hearing the same things Matt is saying in his post.

Posted by: Reinder Dijkhuis | Oct 24, 2005 7:01:00 AM

If I may offer a too-personal anecdote: I'm a member of Matt's generation, of approximately the same age. But my upbringing was rather unorthodox -- my parents, unlike most of my friends', were wholly devoted to me and my sister. They homeschooled us until we were old enough to make the choice to go to school (not Christian homeschooling -- we weren't religious), they put our interests first in most every way, including in their choices of profession and where to live. There wasn't much in the way of SUVs and soccer practice, but I grew up not even knowing what a latchkey kid was. In particular, when I started going to school, I was amazed by how many of my friends' parents were divorced.

Shortly after I graduated and left for college, my parents got divorced too. It seems that my leaving precipitated the realization that without the kids, my parents had little in common and didn't like each other very much. They've since told me that if they hadn't had kids they probably wouldn't have stayed together for more than a couple of years. (For the sake of completeness, my sister is younger than I am, so she kind of got a raw deal here.)

Is this relevant? No idea. But the post did remind me of that, and makes me wonder whether the same thing isn't coming for a lot more American families, now that full-contact parenting is in vogue.

Oh, and although there are many more factors at play here, I don't think I would be inclined to raise my kids in the same way. I always envied the relative independence of my peers -- not freedom, because my parents were quite permissive, but independence -- and would be inclined to encourage my own children to learn self-sufficiency early on. Thoughts?

Posted by: neil | Oct 24, 2005 10:54:17 AM

not good so bad like you

Posted by: bob | Oct 24, 2005 12:28:01 PM

Matt's describing a phenomenon that is real, but limited to a certain (though substantial and influential)segment of the economic system. Most of my friends are white, highly-educated professionals (although a growing share are 'stay-at-home-moms') in their late twenties to late thirties). Those that have kids (almost all over thirty) tend to operate along much the lines described above, or at least the moms tend to. But I live in a neighborhood with a lot of low-income families. These kids are not being shuttled to gymboree and endless soccer games. During the summer groups of children walked around and 10 or 11 o'clock at night, unsupervised--and we're talking young kids, 5, 6 year olds. The Safeway across the street from me usually has a crowd of kids outside trying to convince me and other adults to walk into the store with them because the security guards will not let unescorted children inside. These and other class differences in childrearing are fascinatingly explored in Annette Lareau's Unequal Childhoods , which I strongly recommend. There are real disadvantages to the type of upbringing children in my neighborhood have. They lack educational opportunties and lack of supervision mean many will get in trouble. But in some ways, their upbringing looks much more like mine than those of my friends' suburban kids. And I turned out only mildly-f@#&*ed up.

****

Regarding the start of this post, Gallagher's argument about marriage reflecting "the reality that humanity comes in two halves, male and female, who are called to join together in love..." has some saliency to me, but I think she makes a mistake taking it on to focus solely on children.

A significant part of my religious belief system is the notion that because of sin humanity is broken and divided, not only from God, but also human beings from one another. I don't know that you have to share my religious beliefs to find something true in the notion that much of what religious people call "sin"--selfishness, hate, hurtful behavior--is problematic at least in part because its consequences create divides and brokeness between people, and that one of the great struggles all people face is to overcome that brokenness in meaningful connection to others.

The divide between male and female, and the legacy of oppression and manipulation on both sides of that divide throughout history (although I'd certainly argue women have been the primary victims of this divide), is certainly one of, if not the, greatest and most universal splits among human beings. At least part of the idea of marriage, from a spiritual perspective, is that something more than simple mutual interest and passion is required to reconcile that divide, that marriages are supposed to represent a series of small bridgings of that divide between a man and a woman who commit to one another. This is at least part of the symbolism in the Christian marriage ceremony (the only one with which I'm particularly familiar), although obviously, historically and practically, marriage has often played out as an instrument of oppression and manipulation rather than reconciliation. The notion that this type of ritual is essential to mediate the irreconcilable divide between men and women--both in actual relationships and symbolically as examples--is, to me, critical to the argument for marriage. I have difficulty seeing the need/purpose for a similar type of reconciliation in the case of same sex relationships.

Not, I will point out, that this argument has any bearing on the need for certain legal institutions and protections to give same sex couples the same rights and privileges (particularly those conferred by government) as married heterosexual couples. But I do think the notion of marriage as a commitment between a man and a woman before society (not just a free-standing commitment between a man and a woman) has a signficance or role that is cannot be filled by relationships between two people of the same sex.

Posted by: flippantangel | Oct 24, 2005 1:34:04 PM

My sister and I were very surprised that today if on a child's birthday its becoming the norm to bring cupcakes for entire class as well as some kind of small present. And then have a non-school party with someone who dresses up like the child's fav Disney character. At the party you of course also supply cake, food and again a present/party favor for the attendees. I just wouldn't do all of that - which is of course easy to say as a single person - but usually don't have problems with saying "no no no no no."

Posted by: JenM | Oct 24, 2005 1:38:27 PM

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

My kids are each allowed one "activity" at a time. But with three kids, that still means a lot of driving around. And yes, we do do birthday parties, but we rotate -- a different kid gets a birthday party each year. Like many instances of overconsumption, from SVUs to big-screen televisions, it can be very easy to get sucked into, which doesn't excuse it, but may make it more understandable. More so, since it taps into cultural messages about needing to make life good for our children. Not to mention peer pressure: when my eldest was in Little League, the mother of a teammate expressed disapproval that I was not at his games. The fact that I had younger children who had to be taken to games, and unlike their brother, were not old enough to be left to get to the game on their own, was immaterial.

Some of the horror stories you hear as a parent are astounding: when I attended "Pokemon Rocks America," a multi-city marketing event aimed at Pokemon junkies of all ages and which I only attended because it was free and twenty minutes drive from my house, I talked to a father who had driven *six hours* to be there with his three sons. Another father talked about how, if he had missed this one (in San Jose), he would have to fly his son to the show in Phoenix. All because there was a special Pokemon that you could only get if you went to the show. I think my jaw dropped through the floor.

Posted by: Pat Greene | Oct 24, 2005 5:45:10 PM

My sister and I were very surprised that today if on a child's birthday its becoming the norm to bring cupcakes for entire class as well as some kind of small present.

Actually, that's how it was when I was growing up, fifteen to twenty years ago. Probably before that, too. It certainly wasn't expected, but it was very common. My understanding is that the bringing-in-cupcakes-on-your-birthday thing is in decline, because of what some call heightened attention to nutrition and others call the New Puritanism.

Posted by: Christopher M | Oct 24, 2005 10:11:20 PM

There are also some schools that don't allow homecooked food because of sanitation concerns. At my cousin's gradeschool, all snacks must be either store-bought or prepared in the Home Ec kitchens.

Posted by: Becks | Oct 24, 2005 10:29:57 PM

Maggie Gallagher is an idiot. Now about Matt's points.

I see every game and event that my kids are in. I like to be there. I would rather see a bunch of kids play and have a chance to chat with their parents than attend a pro or major college event and deal with the expense, the parking and general hassle. This has amounted to many hundreds of soccer, basketball, baseball, and tennis sporting events, plays, choir performances and school award ceremonies and I regret not a one. They are fun.

The birthday thing is just seriously sick, however. This is entirely a female thing to the best of my knowledge. I lost those arguments for a number of years, but it eventually got to be enough of a hassle that it no longer an issue. I think 'no elaborate birthday parties' should be part of any reasonable pre-nup these days.

The modern neighborhood with which I am familiar is missing a number of crucial ingredients for kids: there are no sidewalks, no vacant lots, no critical mass of kids. There is no trust. There is no such thing as a sandlot game of any sort in middle class America. Any kid activity of significance requires a trip in a car, hence it requires a league or a club or a class or arranged play. I do think we have lost a lot with this development.

Among my favorite memories growing up was spending the day fishing with the geezers at the river in Minot, ND. Kids of all ages would come and go (I was 8), the old guys, probably railroad workers, would come and go and it was great fun. Not a parent in sight. This is just unthinkable where I live today on about 12 levels, but it was normal in Minot in 1960.

Posted by: Nat | Oct 24, 2005 11:42:01 PM

I agree with Becks's general framework about leisure time versus childrearing responsibilities, but I don't think that's actually the universe in which most people live. Especially in the suburbs, in which a commute can be expected to take up a portion of your day and, more importantly, take you away from the urban center at the end of that day, what are the fulfilling alternatives to shuttling the kiddoes to soccer practice?

The further you live from an urban center, the more likely you are to have to drive to pick up kids from school, drive to the grocery store, drive to the pharmacy, and drive the kids to activities. Something must still be done with the kids even if the parents decide to instead drive themselves to activities, so that limits the likelihood that parents can take part in periodic activities like art or hobby classes—which I'm willing to bet are probably located downtown anyway.

I think as a general rule you can watch television, you can do things for your kids, or you can live in a way that's fulfilling for reasons other than family. Of course, the wealthier you are, the more of these things you can do at the same time. But more importantly, I was under the impression that this doing things with your kids trend was over now that the Xbox is readily available.

Posted by: Kriston | Oct 25, 2005 10:40:03 AM

People inconvenience themselves by moving further and further toward the fringes of urban areas in order to be able to afford houses and yards that are, by world standards, simply enormous and huge swathes of these massive spaces are given over to the children.

Actually, I thought that they did it so they would get away from the high-crime-rate urban minorities, and make certain that their kids went to a school where there weren't a lot of gang-bangers.

Posted by: Glaivester | Oct 25, 2005 1:45:24 PM

A lot of the leisure time versus childrearing responsibilities balance comes from getting a clear idea of what leisure time activities are important to you and which leisure time activities are expendable. I used to go to bookstores and record stores alot on the weekends, but amazon is just as good. It is good to have a realistic assesment of your leisure time "needs" and adjust things with your kids accordingly. It is also important that you don't feel guilty or vassilate about taking leisure time off and that you ensure that your spouse has leisure time as well.

During the weekends, my wife watches the kids in the morning while I go surfing and I watch the kids in the afternoon and evening. The fixed schedule works well because it avoids constantly renegotiating things with my wife and it also avoids micromanaging the leisure time versus childrearing balance. If kids know that you make an ad hoc decision between leisure time and spending time with them and you act guilty when you opt for leisure time, this will be a problem.

>Another father talked about how, if he had missed this one (in San Jose), he would have to fly his son to the show in Phoenix. All because there was a special Pokemon that you could only get if you went to the show.

As a general rule you shouldn't be afraid of doing stupid things with your kids. Especially, stupid things that you want to do anyway.

Posted by: joe o | Oct 25, 2005 3:04:45 PM

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