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Iranian Nukes: So What?
It's one of the fixed-points of the American national security discourse that it would be A Very Bad Thing if Iran had nuclear weapons. And I won't argue that it would be preferable for them not to go nuclear. But what, exactly, is supposed to be so bad about it? The question is an important one, because our policy options for preventing the emergence of a nuclear Iran are rather poor. They differ both in cost and in likelihood of success. Some options that are relatively likely to succeed, but also relatively costly, may not be worth pursuing, even if the alternatives are unlikely to succeed. Or perhaps not. Perhaps a case can be made that a nuclear Iran is such a bad thing that's it's worth preventing by any means necessary. But it's not a case I've heard.
From the American perspective it's easy to assume that if a regime wants nuclear weapons that must be because they intend to do something very nasty with them. But must they? The USA, after all, has nuclear weapons, used them only once, did so in pursuit of a rational (distinguish rational from moral; I would defend the morality of Hiroshima but that's a different fight; the point here is merely that winning the war ASAP was not some kind of craziness on the part of the Truman administration) policy objective, and has never used them since. None of the other nuclear-armed countries have ever used them. The USSR got nukes because we had them and it didn't want to need to negotiate from a position of weakness. France got them so as to not be totally dependent on American security guarantees, and China got them seeking the same sort of independence from the USSR. India built nukes because China had them, and Pakistan built them because India had them. Israel went nuclear because their country is very small so while Syria can lose a war with Israel and still survive as a nation, Israel fears that it can never afford to lose.
Iran, then, as you can see is next to nuclear-armed Pakistan, very close to nuclear-Armed Russia (which, incidentally, likes to muck about in the buffer zones on both sides of the Caspian), not at all far from nuclear-armed Israel, and right next door to Iraq, which until very recently was pursuing nuclear weapons. Under the circumstances, the most reasonable inference seems to me to be as follows. Iran would like to be able to muck about in the Caucuses, in Iraq, and in Central Asia without regional rivals Israel, Pakistan, and Russia possessing overwhelming military superiority. Increased Iranian influence in those areas is not something to be welcomed, but it's not the end of the world either. It's something worth trying to prevent, but it's not something worth trying anything under the sun to prevent.
Perhaps there's something more nefarious afoot, and I'm open to suggestions. Is the thought supposed to be that Iran would help Hezbollah smuggle a nuke into Tel Aviv? Why would they do that? Because they "hate freedom?"
July 5, 2004 | Permalink
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Comments
I agree with Matt:
Nuclear technology is bound to proliferate. Our policy must be able to accomodate that fact. Those bad Commies in China have nukes, and didn't Bush make them members of WTO? Economic, cultural and political interests entwined is the best way to avoid war.
As for the inevitable rogue states, like N. Korea, we should consider a missle defense shield. While such a shield will NEVER be effective for protecting the USA because advances in offense are cheaper and easier than defensive measures, I think we could "lock down" a rogue state with air, sea, land, and space detectors and interceptors of any fired missiles. It is much easier to shoot down these weapons in the launch phase.
Posted by: epistemology | Jul 5, 2004 4:21:00 PM
The next nuclear weapon will be delivered in a suitcase, not a missile. Start from that basis and figure out how to deal with it.
Posted by: Josh Yelon | Jul 5, 2004 4:28:09 PM
I think the logic is that the Iranians are mad mullahs, caught in the midst of the crisis of Islam and Modernity. We dont want mad mullahs in this sort of crisis to have the bomb, any more than it would have been good to have had German Electors or the Duc de Guise with the bomb in the Reformation.
Of course, if you think state interests will dictate 'rational' use of the bomb regardless of social ferment and upheaval, or more broadly, regardless of regime type, then you should worry less. Note however, that on the same logic of dangerous neighbours that drives Iran to have the bomb will then provide a better reason for Saudi, Syria and the rest to get one too.
Posted by: Otto | Jul 5, 2004 4:29:13 PM
Hi Matt et alia -
Know the difference between capabilities and intent? From what I've seen on your blog, you should.
Iranian intent has been clear for quite a while: check
http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP32502
for Rafsanjani's own words on the subject:
If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel's possession [meaning nuclear weapons] - on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.
So you have clear intent from the president of Iran - bye the bye, he's considered a moderate, so you can imagine the rhetoric of a fanatic - that if he's got a nuke, he will use it.
Now I have to ask what avoiding confronting Iran on this issue - you seem to imply that you don't think we should really do anything about it?
Given the history of the region, I dare say that this is a suboptimal solution. Or do you see nuclear weapons as simply being some sort of improved artillery, without their political dimension?
If Iran goes nuclear, then the UN has lost all ability to meaningfully function: it has no teeth, no ability to enforce its own rules.
Down this road chaos reigns. Not merely that, but death and destruction of uncounted millions if Iran decides to attack Jaffa or Tel Aviv with a nuclear weapon.
John
Posted by: John F. Opie | Jul 5, 2004 4:41:30 PM
It is actually quite hard to shoot missles down in the boost phase, as this article explains.
http://tinyurl.com/2lv8h
Posted by: Tom DC/VA | Jul 5, 2004 4:42:05 PM
Our biggest fears come along the lines that Otto discusses. The Islamic Republic is a fair bit more stable than most neocons would like to believe, but it's not exactly a brick shit-house. It takes a while for a military organization to figure out what to do with nukes, how to prepare them, hide them, construct a bureaucracy for use, and so forth. When a state is going through a crisis, you don't want to have to worry about its stray nukes.
That said, I'm a lot less worried about the Islamic Republic collapsing than Pakistan.
Posted by: R. Lefarkins | Jul 5, 2004 4:47:17 PM
If we want to prevent Iran from getting nukes, we have to be prepared to invade and occupy, and then pose a credible threat to re-invade and re-occupy if they were to resume pursuit of nukes after we leave. Probably not worth it. Osirak was a one-time success, based on perfect intelligence (blueprints and a practice mockup built for Israeli pilots) and centralization of Iraq's program.
But we should also be wary of the notion that nukes are inherently a rationalizing influence, promoting responsible behavior in people not otherwise inclined to it. There is probably some truth to that, but I remember reading in June 2002 a number of quotes from Pakistani generals and from man-on-the-street Pakistanis that expressed a credibly fatalistic attitude toward the possibility of nuclear war with India. Iran with nukes could be reckless as well. But bad problems don't always have solutions. In the spirit of Thomas Friedman, a cute name for this idea: the Dr. Phil docrine of nuclear proliferation. It isn't cured, it's managed.
And Josh Yelon is right; an Al Qaeda nuclear threat should be our focus. We think of a nuclear terrorist event as taking out Washington or New York, but remember, Al Qaeda wants to destroy the United States. Devastating one city might make us more united, produce magnified 9/11 reaction. But if terrorists smuggled in half a dozen nukes to half a dozen cities, they might get close to their goal.
Posted by: Sean Flaherty | Jul 5, 2004 4:49:55 PM
I'm not too worried about the "islamic bomb" being used against Israel; whatever rhetoric Rafsanji uses, Iran has and will continue to act in the interests of Iran, not of Islam. The mullahs aren't about to sacrifice themselves for the sake of destroying Israel.
Posted by: R. Lefarkins | Jul 5, 2004 4:50:23 PM
I regret my last sentence. If that really happened, the US would do something so destructive that the attack would not be worthwhile to any terrorist organization with-it enough to acquire a small arsenal.
Posted by: Sean Flaherty | Jul 5, 2004 4:54:44 PM
I agree that nuclear proliferation is inevitable. Iran having the nuke concerns me much less than Pakistan with their walking dead man president that will eventually be taken over by a Taliban like group. I am less concerned about Iran having Nukes than I am about North Korea and their megalomaniac insane leader. Quite frankly I am less concerned about Iran having nukes than I am about Israel having them; I think the Iranians have more sense than the Israelis having demonstrated in the last few years.
Posted by: Ron In Portland | Jul 5, 2004 4:55:57 PM
It's not just that Iran may undergo some systemic collapse, a la the Soviet Union, and lose its nukes in the process. It's that factions within the government and/or military themselves might decide to share nukes and nuke technology with the terrorists, either with official approval, or, more likely, with plausibly deniable tacit approval. See Pakistan for an example of how such an arrangement works.
It also limits our options down the road. We can't forcibly remove the Iranian regime once they have nukes. See North Korea, China and the Soviet Union for examples. Once they're nuclear armed, we're stuck with them for the long haul. Since I think everyone would agree that the current regime in Iran is one that works contrary to our interests, I don't think it's unreasonable for us to want to keep the option of last resort available to ourselves. Is that enough to justify a pre-emptive war now, before they get the bomb? Probably not, but it's definitely enough to justify just about everything short of war.
Posted by: Matt | Jul 5, 2004 4:56:49 PM
Matt's post is very interesting, in light of his support for military action against saddam hussein under the right set of circumstances. The same arguments he sets out as the rational reasons for Iran to want the bomb can just as easily be applied to Iraq, Post Gulf War--Hussein's regime also had reasons to want to be able to muck about the middle east without its regional rivals having total military superiority, especially in light of the fact that Iraq's greatly diminished conventional might was probably at best equal with Iran's, Turkey's, and Syria's. Indeed, nuclear weapons provide the ultimate security guarantee in a dangerous region. Given these facts, most cases for war rested on the idea that Saddam was a) in league with terrorists b) crazy or c) some kind of serial aggressor. Previous posts make it clear that Matt doesn't buy argument a); I think that arguments b) and c) can be effectively rebutted as well (see for example the numerous op-eds and other pieces by mearsheimer and walt in the run-up to the 2003 war, including "an unneccesary war" in foreign policy magazine). If all this is correct, one wonders whether we had better start scoring Matt as one of the Iran Hawks in a coming Kerry administration, or whether he will be revising his position on the Iraq war.
Posted by: brendan | Jul 5, 2004 4:59:47 PM
"Iran having the nuke concerns me much less than Pakistan"
Let's not set the bar too low!
Or, more carefully, its possible to *more* concerned over Pakistan-with-a-bomb's future, but still want to invade and reconstruct Iran before it gets the bomb. After all, we can't invade Pakistan - they've already got the bomb...
Posted by: Otto | Jul 5, 2004 5:09:11 PM
Matt et alia -
You're wrong: we can forcibly remove the Iranian regime once they have nukes: the problem is that this means waging nuclear war. Such an asymmetric war would probably mean that the while the US could take out Iran's nuclear capabilities, sooner or later a nuke would reach Los Angeles or Bosten, maybe Philadelphia, or Chicago.
Can we agree that this is an absolutely suboptimal solution?
Where do you draw the line, Matt? If they don't have the bomb, then we can all relax and do the diplomatic thing? If they do, then we have to accept it or effectively commit mass murder in order to avoid even more mass murder? Quick, you've just been appointed in command: what do you do? You've got three minutes to decide.
This is the problem with nukes: they are first and foremost a political weapon. In most politics, however, you can call your opponents' bluff and the worst thing that happens is that you lose face.
If Iran calls the international communities' bluff - and I think they have done this already - then it means that you aren't talking some theoretical construct, but rather the fate of an entire region.
Nuclear politics and the calculus of deterrence worked between the US and the USSR because fundamentally no one wanted to commit suicide by initiating a conflict that could not be controlled. This is also the case with China: whatever the Chinese are, they are first and foremost pragmatic, and know that a nuclear attack would mean the deaths of most Chinese in China.
Can we say this of Iran? Of North Korea?
The politics of appeasement with these countries is appalling. These are not rational actors - or do you believe they are? - and ultimately would bring upon themselves the destruction that they are seeking to avoid.
I'm off to bed, back in the morning (I'm in Germany...)
John
Posted by: John F. Opie | Jul 5, 2004 5:11:42 PM
The mistake a number of the previous commenters are making is, ironically, the same one the Bush administration made in its decision to invade Iraq. STATES AREN'T THE PROBLEM. States don't use nukes because they fear retaliation. The only time nukes have been used was when only one country had them, so we didn't need to fear nuclear retaliation. (By the way, Matt, I agree that Hiroshima may be morally defensible, but not Nagasaki--that was unforgiveable, in my opinion.) The big concern is a terrorist organization getting nukes, since terrorists don't fear retaliation--they're suicidal to begin with. The most likely way this would happen is if we don't get the stray nukes in Russia nailed down, or if Pakistan collapses and the Islamists take over. Those are the places we should be concentrating our efforts, and those should be aid, rather than invasion.
Posted by: Rebecca Allen, PhD | Jul 5, 2004 5:12:30 PM
For the third time today, let me ask Matt: ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY?
First: the great danger (as has been pointed out with monotonous regularity) is smuggled-in nukes from untraceable original sources, removing our ability to retaliate against such an attack -- unless, of course, you want to retaliate against such an attack by incinerating every nation, guilty or actually innocent, that MIGHT have launched the attack -- thereby, of course, provoking the innocent ones into retaliating against us. Right now, if a smuggled nuke goes off in a US city, we will have two choices: either do nothing (and thus leave ourselves open to an indefinite number of other such attacks), or else blow the beejeezus out of both North Korea AND Pakistan regardless of which one actually provided the Bomb (and assuming, of course, that they aren't both innocent and the Bomb was stolen from Russia). Do we want to add Iran to the growing list of nations that we'll have to retaliate against in such a case?
Second: dictatorships -- because they live in terror not only of outside enemies but of a physically lethal revolt by their own people -- are willing to run risks with Bombs that would be absolutely insane for a democracy but are perfectly rational for them: namely, trying to raise the cash to maintain their stranglehold on their home country by either selling Bombs under the table or using them to stick up their neighbors. This is precisely why North Korea has acquired the Bomb.
Third: when a dictatorship that has the Bomb eventually does collapse, the odds are excellent that some of its nuclear arsenal is going to fall into the hands of unknown parties. The US and the world were staggeringly lucky that -- the only time such a collapse has happened thus far -- Gorbachev was in charge of the proceedings. We won't be that lucky again.
Posted by: Bruce Moomaw | Jul 5, 2004 5:24:42 PM
Leave aside the nukes. The cold war does teach a lesson about nuclear states, and the lesson is that states having nuclear weapons cannot be directly confronted. Laos, Cuba, Vietnam, East Germany, Africa, South America. The Soviet Union armed the Arab League into three wars against Israel.
My fear is not that Iran will use its nukes, not that it will become militarily expansionist, but that it will train, finance, and export terrorists with impunity. As Pakistan is doing. As Saudi Arabia, which doesn't need nukes, is doing.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jul 5, 2004 5:42:30 PM
Appropriately enough, I just finished Azar Nafisi's Reading Lolita in Tehran before coming home to read this article.
I'm with Bruce: Are you out of your damn mind, Yglesias? The best case scenario, if the Islamic Republic of Iran as currently constituted acquires nucelar strike capability, is that the IRI becomes entrenched in perpetuity: a blight on what was once one of the oldest and grandest cultures this world knew, for generations to come. That's the best case scenario, and it's based solely on the questionable assumption that Khamanei and his cronies are at least as rational as Josef Stalin. Every other possible outcome ends with thousands to millions dead.
That said, I share your pessimism that there is anything to be done here. By chasing after the chimera of Saddam's rusting shells of Sarin, we've effectively forclosed all of our best options for dealing with Khamanei's very real nukes.
"Oops."
Posted by: Doctor Memory | Jul 5, 2004 7:27:30 PM
It's hypocritical not to expect that others will emulate nuclear Israel. A rational discussion would consider removing nuclear weapons from the entire Middle East.
Posted by: Dick Fitzgerald | Jul 5, 2004 7:39:14 PM
According to John Opie the Chinese are a pragmatic people.
I know Iranians and Chinese. It doesn't seem that the Chinese love their children more than the Iranians. None of the states will commit suicide. If North Korea were going to use their nukes, they would have already.
Rebecca Allen, PhD has it right, get the nukes from the erstwhile USSR and have a plan for "securing" Pakistan's nukes if wackos take over. Except that even the suicide bombers aren't the irrational maniacs they are made out to be. They have legitimate complaints. Their methods are wrong and murderous, as is Bush's, but they are behaving in a rational goal oriented way. Oddly, much of the substance of bin Laden's complaints about modernism are shared by Bush's right wing Christian supporters to some extent: porn, gays, free speech, women, all need to be curbed.
There was no small irony in seeing news reports in the USA about the Ten Commandments display while the Taliban was practicing what the Christian right professes by abiding by the second Commandment by destroying the graven images of a false idol that the Bamiyan Buddhas represented to the true believers.
Posted by: epistemology | Jul 5, 2004 8:02:49 PM
Doctor Memory:
Iranian mullahs entrenched in perpetuit? What a fevered imagination you have. Nothing lasts forever. Iran is moving to a moderate democracy faster than Iraq is. War is not necessary. Diplomacy and economic pressure and the march of history toward a tolerant secularism in international affairs is needed.
Crusades like Bush is on help the fanatic Christians and the fanatic Muslims.
Posted by: epistemology | Jul 5, 2004 8:08:23 PM
Bruce Moomaw:
The world was staggeringly lucky that Gorbachev was in charge when USSR fell? Really? I thought we owed the peaceful breakup of the Soviet Union to Reagan.
Like the USSR breakup, one apocalyptic vision after another (N. Korea, Iran, etc) will pass by, but there will always be other fears. After all, nothing I say will convince you that death doesn't await us all. Do you really fear nukes more than car crashes? You must not have children.
Posted by: epistemology | Jul 5, 2004 8:13:09 PM
To broach a question that I'm a little afraid to ask - "name the Dark One, and he notices" type of thing -
Bruce speaks about the great danger of untraceable nukes - is this an "open flesh wound" right now, on our security situation?
What countries out there are capable of building, and giving to terrorists, an untraceable nuclear suitcase?
For exampe - China. Let's say that China would like to be the pre-eminent economic and military power in the world. If a couple of suitcase bombs were simultaneously released in New York and Washington, the United States would be deeply wounded, and take at least 5 to 10 years to recover ecomoically. During that time, China would continue its current road of ecomic and military build out.
IN ADDITION, China would be the first to offer condolences, support, etc, to the United States. And China would swear they had nothing to do with it. Perhaps drum up evidence implicating Pakistan, or North Korea?
How would the US know, and how would the United States respond?
Is this a CURRENT danger?
Posted by: JC | Jul 5, 2004 8:34:48 PM
JC:
This is tin-hat crazy. China likes the path they are on now. The world would be a very different place if nukes started exploding. The outcome might not please them. And we absolutely would be able to trace the source. These kinds of things that would involve so many people cannot be kept secret long.
Posted by: epistemology | Jul 5, 2004 9:01:57 PM
I know its tinhat crazy. The technical question I am more concerned about (and it doesn't have to be China - substitute North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, etc) is: what countries right NOW can build nuclear suitcases?
Does someone much more knowledgeable in this area read here?
Posted by: JC | Jul 5, 2004 9:06:07 PM
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