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Iran, Iraq, America
Offering a variant on the remarks he left on my Persian Puzzle thread, Brad Plumer emphasizes that the US and Iran don't really want the exact same thing out of Iraq:
Does Iran want for Iraq what we want for Iraq? In the vague sense that neither of country wants widespread civil war, yes. Still, there are smaller, but crucial, differences. Tehran still remembers the Iraq-Iran war vividly, and its leadership would prefer not to have a strong Iraqi state next door. If I had to guess, I'd say that the present Iranian-backed disruptions in Iraq aim to keep the latter in a state of low-level instability. Nothing chaotic, mind you, but moderately unstable. An Iran analyst once put it to me nicely: the Iraqi Shi'i want a strong Iraq, Iran wants a weak Iraq, and the U.S. wants a pluralistic Iraq. Those are all very different things.On one level, that's clearly right. On the other hand, the level at which it's right is pretty much the if wishes were horses then beggars would ride level. At this point the trends are so clearly toward a level of chaos that's well-beyond what Iran would want from a "weak Iraq" and Iraqi Shia who might like to see a strong, centralized state are so far from getting it that any disagreement about possible end-goals is rather theoretical. If the US had been having a great deal of success in creating a strong, pluralistic, pro-American Iraq that was eager to play host to large US military facilities (something like this, I take it, was Plan A) then there would be room for a significant conflict of interest. But assuming reasonably rational leadership on both sides, there's a lot more agreement than disagreement here. Of course assuming reasonably rational leadership on either side might be something of a mistake in this context. Optimistically, though, Khamenei and Rafsanjani in Iran have usually been associated with a pragmatic approach to foreign policy (combined, of course, with repression at home) and we can at least hope that Edward Luttwack is right and reality will constrain ideology in the second Bush term. Likely? Probably not. Possible? Certainly. The US and Iran did work together pretty well during the Afghan War in late 2001.
November 28, 2004 | Permalink
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Comments
I'd agree with you, but I'm not sure that the current situation is so horrible from Tehran's perspective. The violence isn't really spilling over into Iran at all, and as long as U.S. troops and Sunnis are killing each other then both are pretty well bogged down. Meanwhile, so long as Iraqi Shia leaders (and Kurds, for that matter) are preoccupied with stabilizing the country, they're not going to pose much of a threat to Iran -- to the extent that they pose a threat.
Obviously trying to guess "what Tehran's thinking" is a mug's game if there ever was one so I'm more than open to persuasion on this point. I've certainly written before that Iran could help stabilize Iraq, but then as now, I'm just sort putting my best guess forward.
Posted by: Brad Plumer | Nov 28, 2004 9:12:08 PM
There's a better chance of me having sex with Natalie Portman than Bush and Iran becoming allies.
Posted by: Dan the Man | Nov 28, 2004 9:22:59 PM
Optimistically, though, Khamenei and Rafsanjani in Iran have usually been associated with a pragmatic approach to foreign policy
Here's a time when Rafsanjani associated himself with a non-pragmatic approach to foreign policy.
And here's some less than promising news from the AP today:
Iran Group Signs Up Suicide Volunteers
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer
TEHRAN, Iran - The 300 men filling out forms in the offices of an Iranian aid group were offered three choices: Train for suicide attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq, for suicide attacks against Israelis or to assassinate British author Salman Rushdie.
It looked at first glance like a gathering on the fringes of a society divided between moderates who want better relations with the world and hard-line Muslim militants hostile toward the United States and Israel.
But the presence of two key figures — a prominent Iranian lawmaker and a member of the country's elite Revolutionary Guards — lent the meeting more legitimacy and was a clear indication of at least tacit support from some within Iran's government.
Posted by: SoCalJustice | Nov 28, 2004 9:28:35 PM
And here's some potentially positive news from the AP:
Iran Offers to Train Iraqi Police
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran offered to train Iraqi police and border guards two days before it was scheduled to host a meeting of security chiefs from Iraq's neighboring states, the official news agency reported Sunday.
It was unclear how Iraq would respond to the Iranian offer. The countries fought a war from 1980-88 that killed or wounded nearly one million people on both sides.
"The Islamic Republic is ready to train Iraqi police and border guards and even equip them as well as help with the country's reconstruction," said Ali Asghar Ahmadi, Iran's deputy Interior Minister for Security Affairs, according to the Islamic Republic News Agency.
Egypt and Jordan also have offered to train Iraqi security personnel and technocrats. Iraqi officials have criticized Iran for leaving its long borders with Iraq open to insurgents, and for "meddling" in their country's affairs. Iraqi Defense Minister Hazem Shaalan had said Iran was his country's "first enemy" because it provided guns to insurgents.
Posted by: SoCalJustice | Nov 28, 2004 9:41:15 PM
WTF is he talking about Iran backing "disruptions" in Iraq?
Iraq is a US made political problem.
Iraq is a problem because the US tried to install a puppet government (Chalabi) instead of having elections OVER A YEAR AGO. The US is trying to game the system and install a puppet the Iraqis do not want. This will not work.
The Iranians are doing nothing more than funding their allies. How is that disruptive? Muqtada was fine until the US went after him and turned him into a hero.
GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD. Iraq is a LOST CAUSE.
The US can withdraw tomorrow and Iraq will be unsafe for Americans.
or
The US can keep troops in Iraq for another 4 years, kill another 100,000 Iraqis and Iraq will still be unsafe for Americans.
No matter what America is screwed. Iraq is a LOST CAUSE.
Posted by: bakho | Nov 28, 2004 11:36:57 PM
Were I Tehran (and I'm not), I wouldn't be too concerned with a strong Iraq, since that's pretty damn remote these days. But I would be worried about an America in Iraq that was too secure and comfortable. So I'd pretend to help train Iraqi police, or whatever it takes to appear helpful, while secretly supporting insurgents to keep the US off-balance and trying to secure nuclear bombs (or at least gain concessions by threatening to do so).
Posted by: ScrewyRabbit | Nov 28, 2004 11:47:07 PM
If wishes were horses...
That's terrific, I thought I was the only one who used that expression. The link to Bartleby's is a little pedantic, though, don't you think?
Posted by: Evan McElravy | Nov 29, 2004 12:58:46 AM
If wishes were fishes, we'd all have a fry.
Posted by: praktike | Nov 29, 2004 10:58:04 AM
Does Iran want for Iraq what we want for Iraq? In the vague sense that neither of country wants widespread civil war, yes.
I don't even know that that is true; as long as the US is threatening Iran, it benefits Iran's security interests to have maximum instability in Iraq, since it reduces the capacity of the US to actually carry out military action against Iran, particularly from Iraq.
In the long term, they want stability in Iraq, sure; but so long as the US is in Iraq, and the US is threatening toward Iran, it serves Iran's short term interest for Iraq to be unstable.
Posted by: cmdicely | Nov 29, 2004 11:58:40 AM
This is a set-up for the argument that "Iraq is going very badly so we must invade Iran."
Where have I heard that?...
"The NVA are using Cambodia as a haven so we must expand the Vietnam War into Cambodia." Which led to Pol Pot.....
The US has LOST IRAQ and it has NOTHING to do with Iran.
Posted by: bakho | Nov 29, 2004 1:54:18 PM
Of course assuming reasonably rational leadership on either side might be something of a mistake in this context.
Now that was quite the understatement.
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