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Well...
...it looks like in some sense this may come down to the provisional ballots in Ohio. Fingers crossed. Still, even if Kerry somehow managed to squeak out a narrow win in Ohio, and therefore a narrow electoral college win, it's clear that this hasn't been the most stellar electoral performance. Frustratingly, the Democrats seem to have been rejected more on the basis of somewhat airy "values" questions, rather than on a concrete policy dispute where the party could either modify its position or else mount a more convincing argument the next time around. What to do about that is quite the puzzler, and I don't really specialize in political tactics, so I won't have anything especially enlightening to say about that until I read what some other smart people have to say about it.
One obvious idea is that if Kerry had somehow managed to put forward a more transformative policy agenda rather than the broadly popular, but incredibly conventional, ideas he really did put forward, that would have changed the dynamic. And maybe so, though what the exact content of that would be I can't say at the moment.
November 3, 2004 | Permalink
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... the Mighty Kerry has just struck out. *snicker* The Word for the Day is: "LUUUUUSER!!!": "failed candidate goes back to his job as senator". Too bad you can't get drunk celebrating on non-alchoholic beer. All it does [aside from... [Read More]
Tracked on Nov 4, 2004 9:11:26 PM
Comments
"Frustratingly, the Democrats seem to have been rejected more on the basis of somewhat airy "values" questions, rather than on a concrete policy dispute where the party could either modify its position or else mount a more convincing argument the next time around. What to do about that is quite the puzzler, and I don't really specialize in political tactics,"
Hello? Welcome to Presidential politics.
What to do about that is to nominate candidates like John Edwards who won't alienate voters on cultural grounds, so we can then thump the Republicans on economic grounds.
Posted by: Petey | Nov 3, 2004 1:30:14 AM
Oh to hell with it. Let the neocons have the USA. Let's all move to Europe where there is some respect for real rather than religious values, some trust in defending ones borders rather than neo-imperialism, some sense of building coalitions that prevent rather than commit war, etc. I want no part of an isolated repugnant USA that plays world cop while Europe expands to dominate the world both economically and morally. Yeah I'm pissed and it will take a long time to get over it.
Posted by: AndyS | Nov 3, 2004 1:31:03 AM
Paper ballots next time. All around. Just like in Canada. They count the ballots in 1 evening, and so can we.
But, Canada is so small and we're so BIG, they'll say. Which will make zero sense.
Same ratio of voters to counters.
But, lots of people will fight to stick with secretive machines, won't they.
Posted by: yesh | Nov 3, 2004 1:33:15 AM
Well the question I'm dying to ask you LOSERS is, who should Bush invade next?
God Almighty is our Guardian and Helper, while Democrats have no Guardian or Helper.
Posted by: Modern Crusader | Nov 3, 2004 1:34:57 AM
Allow me to be the first to call bullshit on this "Moral Values" crap. Clearly it's a catch-all category so that Bush supporters can point to something vague and undefinable as their reason for choosing him. I reject this narrative or any narrative imposed by multiple-choice test.
Actually in many cases it could be shorthand for "he's born-again, just like me" - a much more salient point than the drivel about "values."
Posted by: John | Nov 3, 2004 1:36:38 AM
Except those are the exact same exit polls that had Kerry winning Ohio. Why believe them now?
Posted by: Rob | Nov 3, 2004 1:40:18 AM
A Liberal Exodus to Europe? I think it's a wonderful idea. The U.S. may for the forseeable future be lost to Republican policies, but over here, I swear it!, there is potential. All the continent needs is some innovation and revitalization, and a large dose of Americans may just be what the doctor ordered...
Posted by: G. Svenson | Nov 3, 2004 1:41:01 AM
"it looks like in some sense this may come down to the provisional ballots in Ohio. Fingers crossed."
11 motherfucking days™
Posted by: Petey | Nov 3, 2004 1:41:09 AM
Accoring to the Ohio Secratary of State website: http://election.sos.state.oh.us/ProvBallots.htm
only 36,932 provisional ballots were issued. Not enough to make up the gap unless the numbers change overnight.
Posted by: Jerry | Nov 3, 2004 1:41:25 AM
Shit. What a bummer.
Posted by: abb1 | Nov 3, 2004 1:44:14 AM
Modern Crusader,
You sick fuck. I hope you get cancer and die horribly, and burn in hell for all eternity.
Posted by: A Patriot | Nov 3, 2004 1:45:14 AM
It hit me like a diamond bullet through the head while listening to NPR's election coverage. We did not anticipate the turnout of the fundies. This country now belongs to them. Or rather the country is owned by a small corporate class that is powered by the blind faith and naivete of the fundies. We saw it coming but we didn't see it coming.
Posted by: Pat | Nov 3, 2004 1:47:27 AM
"Accoring to the Ohio Secratary of State website: http://election.sos.state.oh.us/ProvBallots.htm
only 36,932 provisional ballots were issued. Not enough to make up the gap unless the numbers change overnight."
Don't believe the hype.
It's messy on the ground. Dems are issuing noises about 250,000 provisional ballots. The details of Ohio are not yet knowable.
I'd rather be them than us right now, but it's not over yet.
Posted by: Petey | Nov 3, 2004 1:48:56 AM
I have no illusions about the likihood of a Kerry win, but the time at which the networks called this election--almost certainly as a response to the bullying of Fox, which took more than an hour to call *California*--is a complete fucking disgrace.
Posted by: Scott Lemieux | Nov 3, 2004 1:49:53 AM
Jerry,
Thanks for that link, but it looks like the "Blue" counties (like Cuyahoga) haven't been accounted for yet on that list.
Posted by: SoCalJustice | Nov 3, 2004 1:50:28 AM
All of you are witnesses. I'm now tradmarking the phrase 11 motherfucking days™.
T-shirts and totebags will be available by morning.
Posted by: Petey | Nov 3, 2004 1:51:27 AM
This values things is really quite simple: stop doing things that piss off white working class males.
For instance, a party that is represented by Nancy Poleisi or whatever her name is, isn't interested in representing the common ground of America. Instead, it is a party intent on pursuing its own values agenda at the price of pissing off white working class males. Those who want to can rationalize and justify. Those who want democracy to work will do something else.
Posted by: razor | Nov 3, 2004 1:51:51 AM
Forgive me, Razor, if I don't find your input particularly helpful.
Posted by: Dan | Nov 3, 2004 1:56:07 AM
What about absentee ballots? Have they been counted? It is safe to assume that absentee ballots follow the same percentages or is there some reason to believe that they would skew one way or the other? In another post someone mentioned 1.2 million absentee ballots in Florida - if they leaned a little, wouldn't that be enough to change the dynamic?
Posted by: N. Ziarek | Nov 3, 2004 1:56:49 AM
If there really are 250,000 provisional ballots, we win.
Posted by: Petey | Nov 3, 2004 1:57:24 AM
...
Maybe so, Pat, maybe so. Ugh.
Posted by: Wrye | Nov 3, 2004 1:58:11 AM
I want no part of an isolated repugnant USA that plays world cop while Europe expands to dominate the world both economically and morally. Yeah I'm pissed and it will take a long time to get over it.
Or try this - http://www.marryanamerican.ca/
Posted by: gigantichound | Nov 3, 2004 1:58:37 AM
Jerry - Right now, there's a guy on CBS claiming an "estimated" 150,000+ provisional ballots, I don't know about absentee ballots. He says it may be one or two weeks before they are all counted.
Patriot - I know the '90s are over, but my first instinct when I hear something that over the top is to assume irony.
Matt - The way we challenge them on values is we become like what we hate. We will have to engage in the worst gutter politics, dragging out all their personal failings, endlessly harping on corruption and backroom deals. I know, you think we already do that - what can we do more? The difference is, we usually couch that in a more comprehensive argument about policy and competence. To win the values argument, we will have to focus on that and that only. They are corrupt. They are liars. They are sleazy. That becomes the main point. The only way to win that one.
Then again, I suspect that four more years of Bush and Co. will drive competence and policy to the fore even with evangelicals, and there is every reason to believe that corruption will become a running theme of a Bush II term II.
Posted by: Kiril | Nov 3, 2004 1:59:07 AM
Not the most stellar performance? I beg to disagree. Kerry withstood a billion dollars of attack ads and an organized lie campaign run out of the White House -- an historic level of official mendacity.
Furthermore, at least 5% of this national vote was probably stolen outright -- push polls, Diebold, thugs at the polls -- whatever.
Kerry should be honored for putting himself on the front line and fighting to bring this country back from the brink.
Posted by: Verso | Nov 3, 2004 1:59:25 AM
"Forgive me, Razor, if I don't find your input particularly helpful."
You may find something wrong with Razor's point of view, but he's right on the facts of why we're the minority party.
That's why John Edwards was my candidate in the primaries, for example...
Posted by: Petey | Nov 3, 2004 1:59:43 AM
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