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Crazy
Discussion hereabouts about being a "crazy magnet" and why sex with crazy people is better. I'm not even sure that's true, but it sort of sounds like selection bias. Basically, why are spending time with this crazy person? Because of the awesome sex.
In my experience, though, far and away the strongest correlate of craziness is having been admitted to Harvard College. Since leaving the asylum, the proportion of people I socialize with who seem reasonably well-adjusted has skyrocketed. And, no, it's not just that folks got older and more mature, since I still know a reasonable number of alums and the incidence of craziness is off-the-charts higher among that set than the alternatives. I think this indicates that I myself am probably crazy (and perhaps really good in bed?); I don't feel crazy, though I guess if you're crazy you probably don't know it. All that said, lots of my favorite people are crazy but there is something pleasingly grounding about knowing a non-trivial number of non-nutters. For a while there near the end of school when I was spending time exclusively with the crazy/Harvard set (first 2.5 years had a girlfriend elsewhere) I really started to loose my grip on things and started thinking it would be a good idea to, for example, invade Iraq.
May 6, 2006 | Permalink
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Comments
Good lovers are, by definition, not crazy.
Folks who aren't clear on this point have their terminology all screwed up.
Posted by: Petey | May 6, 2006 8:40:21 PM
Petey, you're making the classic youthful mistake of confusing sex with love. In related news, the Lakers have broken my heart.
Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | May 6, 2006 10:36:18 PM
Matt:
You sound drunk.
Posted by: blah | May 6, 2006 10:43:27 PM
"Petey, you're making the classic youthful mistake of confusing sex with love."
Meh. Folks who don't respect the nodes of connection between sex and love make lousy lovers.
The beauty of sex with a good lover is that, like an NBA superstar, they'll bring their top game consistently. Wondrous sex with a crazy person is like Bonzi Wells, they'll only bring their top game at the end of a contract year.
If the topic is who's best for a sport fuck, then crazy folks have a certain appeal. But if you think a consistently good lover can be crazy, then you don't know crazy.
Ezra's got some good thoughts on the topic.
"In related news, the Lakers have broken my heart."
Your heartbreak should have happened after Game 6. Tonight was a formality.
Posted by: Petey | May 6, 2006 10:52:25 PM
"I really started to loose my grip on things and started thinking it would be a good idea to, for example, invade Iraq."
It's the temporary insanity by reason of being immersed in Harvard defense.
Novel, but it's too bad you didn't have an ambien prescription back then. "I unknowingly punditized after taking an ambien" is a much more au courant defense. If I were Scooter Libby's lawyer...
Posted by: Petey | May 6, 2006 10:57:19 PM
Umm, are we talking seriously crazy here? Maybe manic-depressives or bipolars are bearable, but most schizophrenics are fairly unattractive. Don't believe the movies.
Never met that many psychopaths, but they hide well. Met some sociopaths, but are they crazy or just bad? Dependent personalities are just pains.
Have I missed anything?
Neurotics aren't crazy, but normal. I read my Freud. I suspect many of the "crazy" people discussed hereabouts are the equivalent of weekend hippies.
No, Petey, the Good and True and Beautiful are not necessarily connected. Good sex can be found outside of well-adjusted healthy socially-approved relationships.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | May 7, 2006 1:05:49 AM
No, no...by far the best correlation to insanity is attending the University of Chicago. Harvard isn't even remotely close.
Posted by: Patrick | May 7, 2006 1:14:09 AM
Bob-
As far as I know, though I didn't ask, no one in that thread was using "crazy" in a way that particularly correlates with any or all abnormal psychology diagnoses.
Posted by: washerdreyer | May 7, 2006 1:27:02 AM
I've only ever met two Chicago grads, one of them very briefly. The one I know well is completely out of his mind -- not only supported the Iraq War, but actually volunteered for the Marines to go fight in it.
Posted by: Matthew Yglesias | May 7, 2006 1:39:04 AM
"Good sex can be found outside of well-adjusted healthy socially-approved relationships."
No doubt.
My far more limited claim is that good lovers are, by definition, not crazy.
The fact that one can have very good sex without necessarily having two good lovers present seems to be throwing folks off the scent.
Posted by: Petey | May 7, 2006 1:46:15 AM
"...though I guess if you're crazy you probably don't know it."
Good clues:not getting out of bed for months on end, repetitive cutting, betting the mortgage on the Clippers to win the title, conversations with dead people. Crazy people usually know something is wrong.
Washerdreyer, I honestly don't know, We have all known screamers and addicts and suicides. Is Bill Clinton crazy? Does his cheating turn Hillary on?
Everybody except Petey is a little weird.
Posted by: bob mcmanus | May 7, 2006 1:49:48 AM
"The one I know well is completely out of his mind -- not only supported the Iraq War, but actually volunteered for the Marines to go fight in it."
And Phoebe is convinced that Walt and Mearsheimer are stone cold anti-Semites...
Posted by: Petey | May 7, 2006 1:51:03 AM
Thanks Bob. I was wondering the same thing--what do you actually mean by "crazy"? Truly-out-of-your-mind-not-legally-responsible-for-your-actions? Has a DSM diagnosis? Just generally wacky/odd/slightly off? neurotic? Big differences there.
FWIW, every man I've been involved with but one fell somewhere on the neurotic to "should be institutionalized" scale (and they fell all along that spectrum) and, with one exception, the well-adjusted guy was a lot better in bed than the "crazy" ones.
On the other hand, while I'm generally sane, I do qualify as "crazy" in the "experiences life with a lot more intensity--things more about things, feels more about things--than most people" sense, and I do think, for a relationship to be both physically and emotionally satisfying to me in any lasting sense, the other individual will have to have that greater level of emotional openess or intensity. Sadly, I'm the opposite of a crazy magnet--I attract guys who are extremely boring and see me as a way to have a more interesting life. I do, though, tend to pick out the crazy ones, natch.
Posted by: flippantangel | May 7, 2006 1:52:35 AM
I'll put up University of Chicago crazies against Harvard crazies any day. It won't be a contest, believe me.
Posted by: Rebecca Allen, PhD, ARNP | May 7, 2006 1:58:54 AM
"Sadly, I'm the opposite of a crazy magnet--I attract guys who are extremely boring and see me as a way to have a more interesting life."
You are their crazy.
"I do, though, tend to pick out the crazy ones, natch."
My advice would be to respect your own pull. In other words, if it's the normals who get drawn to you, work with that.
Posted by: Petey | May 7, 2006 12:28:59 PM
My advice would be to respect your own pull. In other words, if it's the normals who get drawn to you, work with that.
I'm surprised to hear that coming from you, Petey. I mean, you're the one who's always arguing that "all that other interpersonal stuff" is so critical to good sex. Do you really think I can have a successful relationship with someone where a huge part of who I am emotionally and intellectually can't really be shared in the relationship? Is it enough to have good sex and fun and shared history and try to get the emotional connection somewhere else? Is that even fair to the other party?
Posted by: flippantangel | May 7, 2006 1:07:38 PM
Matt--Have you ever read Melanie THernstrom's book, "Halfway Heaven," about the 1995 Dunster House murder/suicide. During the course of her research, she found out that Harvard used to actively try to avoid "crazy" types, i.e. people who might have emotional problems or otherwise be seen as "weak."
Apparently, once upon a time, they used to send the applications of those about whom they had concerns to the chief of psychiatry at University Health Services. They wanted to avoid admitting teracups, although if you were a child prodigy they might be willing to overlook emotional vulnerability.
Posted by: Bostoniangirl | May 7, 2006 1:25:53 PM
"Do you really think I can have a successful relationship with someone where a huge part of who I am emotionally and intellectually can't really be shared in the relationship?"
Well, no. But I like defining things a bit more broadly.
I'm not a big believer in having a specific 'type' one is attracted to and sticking with that. Type can be a useful shorthand in picking people, but I think there are plenty of people who aren't necessarily my type who I can have a perfectly wonderful relationship with.
And since I'm lazy at heart, I tend to respect my own pull, and look most closely among people who are drawn to me, even if they're not necessarily the type I'd choose in the abstract. I can usually find an interesting candidate or two in that pool without having to exert myself too much.
So the advice is that if normal are drawn your way, give 'em a chance to see if any of them are folks who you can emotionally and intellectually share yourself with. There's obviously something in you that draws them, so maybe a certain percentage of them are actually interested in who you are emotionally and intellectually.
Of course, since you live in the District, it's all hopeless anyway. But academic exercises can still be interesting.
Posted by: Petey | May 7, 2006 1:45:13 PM
I've only ever met two Chicago grads, one of them very briefly. The one I know well is completely out of his mind -- not only supported the Iraq War, but actually volunteered for the Marines to go fight in it.
Heh. I applied and Chicago accepted me, although I didn't go. Maybe that explains my support of the war.
Posted by: Al | May 7, 2006 2:33:54 PM
My little sister just decided to go to U. Chicago, so we'll have a chance to do the intra-family Harvard/Chicago craziness comparison in a couple years...
Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | May 7, 2006 3:20:49 PM
When you live a dorm or in student housing you find yourself around way more "crazy" people than you do when you are out making your own living. Why? Because the crazy people either shape up or move back with their parents or drop out of sight some other way and you don't see them anymore. It is possible to be "crazy" - depressed, manic, compulsive, irrational - in college when your parents are paying your bills and your professors really don't care if they never see your face. This has nothing to do with Harvard, it has to do with having it sufficiently together to pay rent and hold a job.
Posted by: JR | May 7, 2006 4:24:34 PM
I really started to loose my grip on things and started thinking it would be a good idea to, for example, invade Iraq.
"When I was a conservative I said a lot of very stupid things. And I became a liberal so that I would not have to go on saying stupid things" - Winston Churchill.
Really. It's in the Jenkins biography.
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