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Sports Borders
The New York Times tackles an interesting question I've always wondered about -- where in Connecticut is the Sox/Yankees border? And, of course, there's a generalized form of the question for all sports boundary zones.
August 18, 2006 | Permalink
Comments
Cubs / Cardinals in Illinois. Southern IL is solid Cardinal territory.
Posted by: Don | Aug 18, 2006 11:12:24 AM
I agree that the article was really pretty interesting.
The thing about sports borders is - are there many cities that are close enough together, with teams having strong enough rivalries and fan-allegiences, to create a distinct border?
I mean, do you think there is a "border" between Houston Astro fans and Texas Ranger fans? Is there a "border" between Florida Marlin fans and Tampa Bay Devil Rays fans? I doubt it. Likely that the fan base just peters out somewhere not far from the stadium.
I can think of only a few examples - e.g., Cubs vs. Cardinals, the border being somewhere in Southern Illinois.
Posted by: Al | Aug 18, 2006 11:14:03 AM
Don beat me to it! :-)
Posted by: Al | Aug 18, 2006 11:14:46 AM
The "common census" mapping project is beginning to answer some of these questions, kind of: http://www.commoncensus.org/sports.php
Posted by: N Dawgg | Aug 18, 2006 11:20:27 AM
Because anecdote*X = data:
My guess is that I-74 is the approximate dividing line between Cubs and Cardinals territories. Then again, there are non-trivial numbers of native Cards fans as close to Chicago as Rockford.
When I lived in Waukegan, IL (near the Wisconsin border), people seemed to split about 55/45 for Bears/Packers, despite being 1 hour from Chicago and 5 hours from Green Bay.
As for Astros-Rangers, I lived in Austin for a while and while (pro) baseball wasn't a big deal down there, I remember that both teams were on TV fairly regularly. The basketball preference seemed to go Spurs/Mavs/Rockets in that order, though that may have been a reflection of which teams were worth a damn at the time.
I also lived for a while in southern New Mexico, and I suspect that a border between Cowboys and Broncos fans is somewhere near where I was. (The Cardinals are not a factor.)
In some cases (especially in intra-city rivalries or college rivalries) there are lifestyle/political/cultural complications to a strict geographic reading. My father grew up in Mt. Vernon, NY (just over the border from the Bronx) in the 50s, but his family's team was decidedly the Dodgers, because that was what good NYC liberals did in the 50s.
Posted by: cmdr. overbite | Aug 18, 2006 11:39:58 AM
A big part of it must be the comparative quality of the two teams -- the Yankees and Red Sox are both historically good, and so will presumably have stronger draws on fans. OTOH, the Marlins have a short history of severe ups and downs, while the Devil Rays have an even shorter history of nothing but downs.
That commoncensus page is very interesting, BTW. Growing up in western upper Michigan, I never realized that the eastern half of the peninsula was full of Lions fans. As far as I could tell, the UP was Packers country.
Posted by: Aaron S. Veenstra | Aug 18, 2006 12:33:45 PM
When I lived in Waukegan, IL (near the Wisconsin border), people seemed to split about 55/45 for Bears/Packers, despite being 1 hour from Chicago and 5 hours from Green Bay.
When did you live there? I ask because there's no accounting for success. If you were there in the mid-nineties Brett Favre heyday, it's easy to see why lots of Waukegan folks would want to cheer for the Packers rather than the Cade McNown All-Stars. It sucks to cheer for a crappy team. Just ask Knicks fans.
On the other hand, in the mid-eighties I wouldn't expect to find 45% of Waukeganites cheering for the Pack.
Posted by: DJ Ninja | Aug 18, 2006 12:50:27 PM
The San Francisco Bay Area is another interesting study of this concept. Though initially it seems like an easy 415/650 vs. 510/925, west bay/peninsula/marin vs. east bay/north bay/outlying split, Bay Area Sports Fandom is much more complicated than that.
Most San Franciscans root for the Giants, naturally, Marinites never venture to the East Bay, the peninsula (San Mateo etc.) has a strong presence of A's fans due to the relative poverty of the populace and the proximity of the San Mateo Bridge, which dumps your Nissan minitruck off by the Oakland Coliseum. There are many distinguished National League partisans in the East Bay, and self-righteous Barry-haters on the West side who inexplicably love Barry Zito. But the more interesting phenomenon is with football. There are Niners fans, and then there are the raving gibbering troglodytes who swaddle their crack babies in silver & black.
They lay dormant during the Long Winter, when the team toiled in football-hostile SoCal, but over recent years, Raiders' "fans" have resurged, reupping their obnoxiousness and huffing more paint and doing more whippets than a pair of 19-year-old Mormon missionaries.
Posted by: G-bag | Aug 18, 2006 1:32:51 PM
The Steelers-Eagles boundary is within the town of State College, PA. Specifically, the town is solidly pro-Pittsburgh, while the university, with a population during the spring and autumn nearly equal to that of the town, is solidly pro-Philadelphia.
Each year I hope the two teams will not have to face each other in the Super Bowl, because we would surely have a riot.
Posted by: Nathan | Aug 18, 2006 2:21:33 PM
This book here went into some detail about stuff like this. (I think the author said New Haven was the boundary in the case MY mentioned.) Turns out it isn't searchable online, though.
One thing I've never understood about Cub fans is why you find so many all over the country. That's not the case with the White Sox. Is it because of Wrigley Field, or WGN? Or is it because the North Side team has wealthier, hence more mobile, fans?
Posted by: Wade | Aug 18, 2006 2:31:20 PM
Wade, it's because of WGN. For the same reason you can find Braves fans pretty much anywhere, though they tend to be more concentrated in areas where there either isn't a team, or one that hasn't been there for very long (Braves' games in Miami are usually very well attended for instance).
Posted by: Nicholas Beaudrot | Aug 18, 2006 3:47:14 PM
I've lost interest in baseball over the years, but my loyalty was always to the Braves, whom I saw on TBS when I was growing up in Kansas and North Carolina.
Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Aug 18, 2006 6:50:33 PM
Living in Champaign-Urbana (Central IL), I would note that there is often no such clear border. In CU, we have a threeway war between White Sox, Cubs, and Cardinals in which there is no dominant winner (though the White Sox have been doing fairly well in the bandwagoneers demographic recently).
Posted by: Patrick | Aug 18, 2006 6:50:44 PM
For Yankees/Phillies (0r Giants/Eagles, or Nets/76'ers), the line follows the division between East Jersey and West Jersey colonies, although that line was undrawn around 1750.
Posted by: old guy | Aug 18, 2006 7:10:46 PM
"The thing about sports borders is - are there many cities that are close enough together, with teams having strong enough rivalries and fan-allegiences, to create a distinct border?
"I mean, do you think there is a "border" between Houston Astro fans and Texas Ranger fans? Is there a "border" between Florida Marlin fans and Tampa Bay Devil Rays fans? I doubt it. Likely that the fan base just peters out somewhere not far from the stadium."
You're dead wrong, Al.
Sports boundaries exist everywhere outside of Bos-Wash and other major megalopolises. Just follow which teams get broadcast on the local station. Local stations throughout Texas have to make a decision on whether to broadcast Astros or Rangers games. Local stations in Nevada likewise have to decide which franchise is the "home team".
Life may be provincial outside of Bos-Wash, but sports are a national thing. Geographical density is not the pre-condition for sports boundaries existing. The existence of broadcast networks is the pre-condition.
Posted by: Petey | Aug 19, 2006 4:55:27 AM
"I mean, do you think there is a "border" between Houston Astro fans and Texas Ranger fans?"
Most definitely there is.
Here in Waco we are about 90 miles south of Arlington and 180 miles NW of Houston. This is definitely Rangers territory. Move an hour southwest to College Station and you are in Houston territory.
It depends on media markets, yes. But also which big city people tend to travel to for business and recreation. Everyone in Waco drives the 1.5 hours north to Dallas/Fort Worth for business, or perhaps the 1.5 hours south to Austin. But NEVER the 3 hours southwest to Houston or 3 hours south to San Antonio unless you have specific reasons to go to those cities.
I notice that Ranger games are always on the local fox sports station here but almost never astros games.
Posted by: Kent | Aug 19, 2006 10:06:58 AM
old guy has it about right. Burlington County is definitely Phillies territory, while Ocean County in my experience goes for the Yanks (I grew up in BurlCo). At the northern end, though, Trenton and the rest of Mercer County seemed to be in thrall to the Yankees when I worked there, but maybe that's because it was 73-75 and New York had the Thurman Munson Yankees, while the Phillies sucked big time. I'd be interested to know if the border shifted a bit in the late 70's-early 80's. Maybe, but probably not. These things are tribal, y'know.
Posted by: Don K | Aug 19, 2006 4:12:58 PM
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