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Why, Yes, I am An Asshole
Over at Tapped, Ben Adler misses the point about this Washington Post article. The whole concept that there's some kind of "big three" universities in the United States -- Harvard, Yale, and Princeton is a foolish Tiger construct. There's Harvard, there's an Ivy League, and there's a Harvard-Yale rivalry. Number one US News ranking or not, Princeton simply has nothing to do with it and these efforts to pull away from the Brown-Columbia-Dartmouth-Cornell-Penn pack are, frankly, unseemly.
Yes, yes, it's rude but that's the way it is. Copious research indicate that college choice is, in fact, unimportant for life outcomes leads to the conclusion that the only relevant considerations are (a) cost, (b) weather, (c) snob factor and that New Jersey school just can't compare to Harvard and Yale in category (c).
August 22, 2006 | Permalink
Comments
By any chance did you go to Harvard?
Posted by: CJColucci | Aug 22, 2006 4:53:42 PM
the funny thing about this is that, while I agree with you, Princeton students and alums are, by far, much bigger snobs than the products of either Harvard or Yale.
Posted by: Goldberg | Aug 22, 2006 5:02:36 PM
Harvard sucks.
Posted by: fnook | Aug 22, 2006 5:03:52 PM
MY-
There's no need to be defensive just because Princeton boasts both the quality undergraduate experience and legitimate mascot critically lacking at Harvard.
Posted by: Mark | Aug 22, 2006 5:20:43 PM
The bigger point Adler missed was that the offending article was in the Style section, not the News section, geez louise.
And, honey, if whether and cost are included along with snob factor in your top three deciding factors (though I sincerely doubt you had any reason to worry about cost), why the hell did you go to an Ivy League school?
I, on the other hand, chose my school entirely based on whether and how much money they would give me and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Posted by: flippantangel | Aug 22, 2006 5:23:31 PM
Damnit, I meant "weather" not "whether." I swear I did get a decent education despite a serious tendency towards that particular error.
Posted by: flippantangel | Aug 22, 2006 5:24:56 PM
Please, MY, tell me you're not in fact one of those Harvard snotmouths. I have to deal with these people all day, every day and let me tell you, it sucks.
Funnily enough, the Harvard alumni I know who went to Harvard as undergrads and got advanced degrees at other places tend not to be so obnoxious as those who either have no advanced degree, or worse, Harvard Law alums. Plus, sometimes it is so easy to laugh at them. There was the time when one of them saw me making my morning coffee in my $25000 coffee mug (which says "University of Virginia Alumni" on it) and actually said to me, "You went to college?" He was incredulous. I work in Systems, you see. Yes, you jackweed, I went to the best public university in the nation. (Berkeley, Schmerkeley, that's what I say! Even us lowly publicly educated folks have our snobbery.)
Posted by: ajw93 | Aug 22, 2006 5:42:14 PM
"MY-
There's no need to be defensive just because Princeton boasts both the quality undergraduate experience and legitimate mascot critically lacking at Harvard."
Thank you, sir. You just made my day.
Posted by: matt | Aug 22, 2006 5:59:28 PM
As a Harvard grad, I would certainly like to agree with you. But the fact of the matter is that Princeton has a consistently similar acceptance rate despite (a) having an absurdly long application with 4 actually hard essays (I remember one being "what could we do to improve race relations in this country?"), (b) not being everyone's "dream" school as Harvard generally is considered, in my experience, and (c) being in the boonies of NJ rather than hip Cambridge.
The only reason Harvard is so consistently regarded higher than Princeton (and Yale, to a lesser extent) in the common esteem is its preponderance of excellent grad schools, which enrich the College, oh, not at all.
Posted by: right | Aug 22, 2006 6:13:18 PM
Need I note that none of these schools boasts a competitive football squad? MY will tell you that the Harvard–Yale rivalry is the oldest in college football, but that's neither here nor there when the BCS bowls around. Princeton and whoever else can keep their dining clubs. Hook 'em Horns!
Posted by: Armsmasher | Aug 22, 2006 6:14:18 PM
Princeton students and alums are, by far, much bigger snobs than the products of either Harvard or Yale
In my experience, this is correct. In the contest of bigget snobs, Princeton rules.
Also, in my experience, there is no Brown-Columbia-Dartmouth-Cornell-Penn "pack". One of those schools is indisputably superior to the others.
Posted by: Al | Aug 22, 2006 6:14:30 PM
MY will tell you that the Harvard–Yale rivalry is the oldest in college football, but that's neither here nor there when the BCS bowls around.
The BCS means nothing. The only championship that matter is the Ivy championship.
Posted by: Al | Aug 22, 2006 6:17:16 PM
You need to distinguish between kinds of snobbery, I think. Certainly Harvard & Yale have more snob appeal among sort of haute bourgeoisie types. But there's also the more blue-blood sort for whom Princeton is just about at the top of the pyramid.
Posted by: Christopher M | Aug 22, 2006 6:31:29 PM
i think the perception of princeton as somewhat the poor sister (filled with wealthier folk on average?) arises from the fact that harvard and yale consider each other rivals, princeton is somewhat left out (though a bigger rival than the rest of the ivies).
Posted by: dj superflat | Aug 22, 2006 6:35:55 PM
There is nothing more amusing than American snobbery, except perhaps Australian snobbery.
If you went to a school founded after 1400, it's like you bought your own furniture.
Posted by: otto | Aug 22, 2006 6:46:15 PM
Also, in my experience, there is no Brown-Columbia-Dartmouth-Cornell-Penn "pack". One of those schools is indisputably superior to the others.
I'd like Al to play to type and be a Dartmouth alumnus -- a small college, and yet there are conservatives who love it -- but I'm guessing he went to Penn. Do I win a Marvel No-Prize, Al?
Posted by: Steve | Aug 22, 2006 6:48:31 PM
Also, in my experience, there is no Brown-Columbia-Dartmouth-Cornell-Penn "pack". One of those schools is indisputably superior to the others.
Which one is that, and when did you graduate?
Posted by: flippantangel | Aug 22, 2006 6:50:43 PM
Since Princeton was ranked #1 in that US news survey, the Washington Post would have a hard time leaving them out of the article.
Posted by: joe o | Aug 22, 2006 8:08:19 PM
Funnily enough, the Harvard alumni I know who went to Harvard as undergrads and got advanced degrees at other places tend not to be so obnoxious as those who either have no advanced degree, or worse, Harvard Law alums.
Heh, one of my law school classmates was a Hah-vahd undergrad man, but of course he had to be ultra snooty and gives us the "Oh I went to school in Boston" bullshit. Of course about 2 weeks of everyone derisively asking "is that how they do it in Boston?" cured him real quick like...
Posted by: Pooh | Aug 22, 2006 8:32:29 PM
And lest I miss a chance to make a fool of myself...Harvard of the Midwest - boo-yah
Posted by: Pooh | Aug 22, 2006 8:33:39 PM
"Yes, you jackweed, I went to the best public university in the nation. (Berkeley, Schmerkeley, that's what I say! Even us lowly publicly educated folks have our snobbery.)"
Berkeley and Virginia and both excellent schools, easily the worthiest runners up to the true greatest public university: Michigan. And I'm on MY's side with this one, Harvard is clearly superior. Why, it's nearly a Michigan of the East!
Posted by: justin | Aug 22, 2006 9:43:11 PM
Steve, flippantangel, I gave you a hint in the next post. Oh, OK... Brown. Which, in my HUMBLE opinion, is superior to the other 4. :-) I graduated in the early 90s. Not exactly to type, eh, Steve?
Posted by: Al | Aug 22, 2006 11:04:21 PM
I don't get all of this snobbery.
Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are all good safety schools for those who didn't get into Brown, Wesleyan, or Bennington.
Posted by: Petey | Aug 22, 2006 11:28:20 PM
I don't see how any of you got an education without clergy around. It's all about the Catholic Harvard, baby (although we tend to flip it and call the Cambridge school the Heathen Georgetown).
Besides, we stole both Princeton's basketball coach and system a few years ago. We're coming off a Sweet 16 run, they finished at the bottom of the Ivy League last year. Boo. Yah.
Posted by: Cain | Aug 23, 2006 2:37:46 AM
Eh, these rankings mean nothing anyways... Ivy League schools are businesses: they accept undergrads who will dutifully collect high GPAs and important-sounding resumes (helped by grade inflation and a large number of meaningless activities), go on to MDs, JDs, MBAs, (helped by weighted grad admittances), and contribute large amounts of money as alumnis.
Any liberal arts college would provide a better education, and any state school would be a better value.
Posted by: derkabok | Aug 23, 2006 3:26:53 AM
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